View Full Version : extra queen cells
So here's my situation:
I took out a very large colony out of a barn. I'm not a good guesser as to how many bees but i think possibly around 20-30,000.
I made some of those 'removeable swarm catching frames' to cut and save the brood (they worked WONDERFULLY!! 7 of them fit into a deep with space in between frames.) I had no idea whether or not i caught the queen. They were hived on 6/3 with all ages of brood (eggs included). According to the queen rearing chart i shouldve had sealed Qcells on the 7th or 8th if they used newly hatched eggs (emerging on 14th/15th), and as well unsealed up until possibly the 10th or 11th (last ones emerging around 17th/18th).
Today (9th) I finally was able to get in the hive to see if the queen was in there or if they started Qcells. They made so many Qcells, approx. 7-10 cells per frame, some sealed some not. I decided that since it was such a large colony and they are rearing so many Qcells, I divided them up into 3 colonies, distributing the frames of sealed/unsealed brood and Qcells, ect.
Ok so as for my question... I'm wanting to divide my other 3 colonies and would like to use those extra Qcells. I would like to know the best way to secure the Qcells so the first emerging queen doesnt destroy the others. Should i some how screen around them? Should i cut the extras out? If i cut the extras out how many is considered "extra".
This spring has been horribly cold and wet, i hope there are drones somewhere out there ready for all these new queens.
Might i add that this is my first year at raising my own queens. I was going to try my hand out at grafting but with Qcells already started i might as well keep them if i can. I'm in the middle of building 4 frame baby nucs, 5 frame medium nucs (these will be used as swarm boxes as well), homemade wax cups, queen builder frames, FWOF, ect. I'm using medicine bottles with holes drilled all around them for my Qcell protectors (hair rollers).
Well enough rambling on, thanks.
Dee
[ June 09, 2006, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Dee ]
Velbert
06-09-2006, 08:57 PM
Dee
Cull the Runts, if you think you have a handle on the hatch dates. If you want to make splits out of your other three hives. split them about 2 days ahead of when you think the first cells will hatch. about 24 hours later cut the Queen cells out and place them between the frames in your divides next to the brood I like to place them toward the top of the frames with the brood.check back in a 2-3 days an see if your Q Cells have hatched. If by chance they dont turn out the bees in the divides will build Emergance Queen cells so you will have something to fall back on.If so on the 5th day from making the split go through and find one that is not sealed and keep this one and knock off the ones that are sealed. would not leave over 2 Queen cells that are unsealed. also I would feed these divides.
If you plan to use your 4 frame baby nucs with frames of foundation you will need to stock them with young bees I usally use a pint of bees from the brood nest of your doner colonie, you will have to keep feed on them all the times you have them closed up and in full shade and plenty of ventilation (keep them closed up for 3 Full days after the Queen cell has hatched)if you dont most of them will swarm and leave the baby nuc. the reason for 3 days after the Q cell hatches the Queen will get her pharmone most of the time then they will stay put.
Michael Bush
06-10-2006, 01:45 PM
>7 of them fit into a deep with space in between frames.)
They don't require ANY space between frames and you should be able to fit at least nine or ten in a ten frame box.
>According to the queen rearing chart i shouldve had sealed Qcells on the 7th or 8th if they used newly hatched eggs
But they never do. They would have capped cells in five days.
> (emerging on 14th/15th)
So it would be the 11th or 12th.
>and as well unsealed up until possibly the 10th or 11th (last ones emerging around 17th/18th).
I would expect them all to have EMERGED by then because they will not start with an egg, they will start with three or four day old larvae.
>Today (9th) I finally was able to get in the hive to see if the queen was in there or if they started Qcells. They made so many Qcells, approx. 7-10 cells per frame, some sealed some not. I decided that since it was such a large colony and they are rearing so many Qcells, I divided them up into 3 colonies, distributing the frames of sealed/unsealed brood and Qcells, ect.
That's what I'd do.
>Ok so as for my question... I'm wanting to divide my other 3 colonies and would like to use those extra Qcells. I would like to know the best way to secure the Qcells so the first emerging queen doesnt destroy the others.
It's pretty difficult when they are made in comb. Since you did a cutout, though, there shouldn't be any wires. If the queen cells are far enough apart you can cut them out and put them in seperate hives. I would wait until the end starts looking a bit papery so they will be more durable.
>Should i cut the extras out?
Why?
> If i cut the extras out how many is considered "extra".
One queen cell will do.
>This spring has been horribly cold and wet, i hope there are drones somewhere out there ready for all these new queens.
I'm sure there is by now.
>Might i add that this is my first year at raising my own queens. I was going to try my hand out at grafting but with Qcells already started i might as well keep them if i can.
Of course.
> I'm using medicine bottles with holes drilled all around them for my Qcell protectors (hair rollers).
Interesting idea.
Velbert:
thanks for the info especially about the baby nucs
MB:
I have a few questions about your responses to me...
>7 of them fit into a deep with space in between frames.)
>>They don't require ANY space between frames and you should be able to fit at least nine or ten in a ten frame box.
>>>only 9 would fit, and if i did push them all together then there wouldnt be space for them to get on top of the frames except from the very outside edges. (with my NORMAL frames i dont leave spaces, just THESE cut-out frames)
>According to the queen rearing chart i shouldve had sealed Qcells on the 7th or 8th if they used newly hatched eggs
>>But they never do. They would have capped cells in five days.
>>>ok im confused by your answer, maybe i mispoke?? - - why wouldn't they use newly hatched eggs (4 days after being laid)? and yes i know 5 days later - which would be the 8th - these bees were hived on the 3rd [the 3rd + 5 days = 8th day]. still making the emerging date 14th/15th. Am i not correct in all this???
>and as well unsealed up until possibly the 10th or 11th (last ones emerging around 17th/18th).
>>I would expect them all to have EMERGED by then because they will not start with an egg, they will start with three or four day old larvae.
>>>if the queen had just laid those eggs on the 3rd (same day i did the cut out and hived them) they would hatch around the 5th/6th, be sealed-up around 10th/11th. They couldnt possibly all be emerging by the 10th/11th if i just seen unsealed cells on the 9th.
>Should i cut the extras out?
>>Why?
>>>To use in other hives as i stated prior.
thanks to everyone,
Dee
Michael Bush
06-10-2006, 08:16 PM
>>They don't require ANY space between frames and you should be able to fit at least nine or ten in a ten frame box.
>>>only 9 would fit
That's fine.
> and if i did push them all together then there wouldnt be space for them to get on top of the frames except from the very outside edges.
It doesn't matter.
> (with my NORMAL frames i dont leave spaces, just THESE cut-out frames)
The bees will be able to get around on the very ends of the last frames and the rest they will get from comb to comb from the holes that are either already there or they ones they will chew.
>>>ok im confused by your answer, maybe i mispoke?? - - why wouldn't they use newly hatched eggs
Sorry, I was too quick and didn't think through what you're saying. Yes, they are newly hatched eggs. I guess I was thinking you were saying new laid eggs.
>- these bees were hived on the 3rd [the 3rd + 5 days = 8th day]. still making the emerging date 14th/15th. Am i not correct in all this???
If they were hived on the 3rd and the larvae was 4 days old then, they will be capped four or five days later on the 7th or 8th and emerge eight days later on the 15th or 16th. So you are pretty much correct. Two weeks later, or about the 30th, you should have eggs.
>>>if the queen had just laid those eggs on the 3rd (same day i did the cut out and hived them) they would hatch around the 5th/6th, be sealed-up around 10th/11th. They couldnt possibly all be emerging by the 10th/11th if i just seen unsealed cells on the 9th.
It's possible they will start some MORE queens later and that's probably what you are seeing if you have larvae in an uncapped cell on the 9th.
>>>To use in other hives as i stated prior.
If you can do so without risk to other queen cells. If they are in a clump I would not attempt it. Since this is natural comb you've skipped the issues of wire in the wax, or plastic comb which usually mess up such a plan.