Queen candy recipe please

[JohnK and Sheri]

Hello All
I am raising queens for the first time this year. Everything went fairly smoothly until I needed to make up some queen candy for cages. How on earth does one get it to stay solid enough in our warm, humid Wisconsin summer? I tried mixing powdered sugar and honey until it was very stiff but within an hour the candy was melted and there were queens running around on the truck seat. I hate it when that happens!
Any good recipes out there?
Thanks in advance, this forum is the best!

Sheri

[Branman]

I've never made queen candy, much less raise queens, but I seem to remember that you can use marshmellows in a pinch. If you're just using them for yourself, I think you can just stuff a big marshmellow in the hole, or maybe a piece of one

[Velbert]

make it up day or 2 ahead of time and keep working in powder sugar until stiff in the hot weather gives the powder sugar time to absorbe the honey

[power napper]

I just shove a miniature marshmallow in the open end and it take two or three days for the girls to release the queen!

[JohnK and Sheri]

Thanks everyone
I will try adding more powdered sugar next time. The marshmallow sounds too easy, I will try it too.
I never imagined I would enjoy the queen rearing so much, really gives one a great sense of accomplishment. I am already planning on doubling our pocket boxes for next year, just have to talk my husband into building them, lol.

Sheri

[Michael Bush]

I don't use any powdered sugar. I just take a small amount of water and add sugar until there's no liquid. Then I cook it in the microwave until it bubbles and add some more sugar until it's a paste. While it's still hot I put it in the queen cage. It's not as soft as the nugant you usually get but it works fine. The bees seem to get it chewed out in about the right amount of time. Of course candy always dries out over time or get soft if it's humid out.

[Nick Noyes]

Masking tape works good. Just put over hole and cut a slit or poke a small hole when you put the queen in your hive. Weather and temp don't effect it like candy. Works good.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Nick, I suppose the strength of the hive would determine how long it takes for them to get her out of there? It's those big hives where we want her sequestered a little longer..... We have used aluminum foil over the candy supplied for boughten queens if the candy seems a little soft. After a day or two the foil can be flicked off with a hive tool without even moving a frame, and they can start workin on the candy. The trouble is, this requires another trip to the yard, and there just aren't enough hours in the day or days in the week. My husband didn't have any foil with him when he realized my candy was now liquid so he used duct tape. Bet that use isn't in the book, lol.
Michael, I'll try this too when the next batch comes off.
Sheri

[JohnK and Sheri]

Nick, I suppose the strength of the hive would determine how long it takes for them to get her out of there? It's those big hives where we want her sequestered a little longer..... We have used aluminum foil over the candy supplied for boughten queens if the candy seems a little soft. After a day or two the foil can be flicked off with a hive tool without even moving a frame, and they can start workin on the candy. The trouble is, this requires another trip to the yard, and there just aren't enough hours in the day or days in the week. My husband didn't have any foil with him when he realized my candy was now liquid so he used duct tape. Bet that use isn't in the book, lol.
Michael, I'll try this too when the next batch is ready to pick.
Sheri

[peggjam]

I've used duct tape as well. The only problem I have with it is you have to release the queen yourself after a few days. I didn't poke any holes in it though, as at the time, I didn't want her out in the hive I had her in.

[tecumseh]

johnk adds:
I will try adding more powdered sugar next time.

tecumseh sezs:
there is a precaution about using powdered sugar for queen cage candy. it is reported to reduce the productive life of the queen.

[Dave W]

>I tried mixing powdered sugar and honey until it was very stiff

Since honey may carry bee disease organisms, it is illegal to ship queens w/ honey-made candy.

[Michael Bush]

Part of the issue is what is the purpose of the candy? To ship the queen through the mail? If so then she (and her attendants) require sustinance. To allow a gradual release? Then the marshmallow should work fine.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Tecumseh
I would be interested in reading the research on powdered sugar reducing the productivity of the queen. We got this method from folks that have been doing this for a couple generations, not effecting the queen (to their knowledge, but then they never did comparison studies. When running a big operation sometimes time isn't taken to compare results, and inefficiencies or counter-productive actions might go unnoticed).

Dave, I am aware of this law, but as we aren't selling our queens, just using in our own operation, it isn't an issue. And honey is one thing we've got a lot of, lol.
Sheri

[JohnK and Sheri]

Michael
What is the time frame for the bees releasing her? Marshmallows seem so soft I would worry a little about too quick a release, especially with our summer heat and humidity. With queenless nukes it might not be an issue but if we want to requeen a large hive it would be. I suppose tin foil over the marshmallow would slow them down but this necessitates returning to the yard to pop the foil off.

[Dave W]

Method #1 - Warm 1 pint honey to 150o F in double boiler. Add 4 pounds confectioners' sugar w/ continuous stirring. Knead into a firm, but not hard, dough, adding additional powdered sugar until desired consistency is reached. [Ref 5, p453] Since honey may carry bee disease organisms, it is illegal to ship queens w/ honey-made candy [Ref 12, p1020].

Method #2 - Mix finely ground (10X) confectioner’s sugar w/ honey or isomerose. Blend until firm or like stiff dough [Ref 9, p403]. Stir 1 part invert sugar syrup into 5 or 6 parts of powdered sugar. Knead w/ hands, adding more sugar, until a firm candy is formed. Some add a few drops of glycerine to prevent evaporation of moisture [Ref 13, p315].

Method #3 - Marshmallow [Ref 15, p85].

[Michael Bush]

>What is the time frame for the bees releasing her? Marshmallows seem so soft I would worry a little about too quick a release, especially with our summer heat and humidity.

I think there is always the issue with candy or a marshmallow that humidity and other factors have a large effect on the amount of time. The only sure way is to leave the cork in for four days and direct release her. But many times you're introducing queens in an outyard and you don't want to make another trip.

I've had the best luck with a push in cage.

[tecumseh]

johnk sezs:
I would be interested in reading the research on powdered sugar reducing the productivity of the queen.

tecumseh replies:
this precaution is reported in my very dated (likely 1970's) abc-xyz of bee culture. I think the general subject matter was the making of queen cage candy or inverted surgar. the problem (if memory serves) is the corn starch added to powdered suger. it is my further understanding that confectionary suger does not contain corn starch (but definitely don't quote me on that).

so DaveW I see a reference and page number on your previous post.... so give it up dude, what is the source?

[chief]

I made some candy this week from honey and granulated sugar. I checked the queens after two days and they had been released. Luckily they both took. I used granulated sugar because my powdered sugar did have corn starch in it. I will have to try the marshmallow next time to see if it works.

[Dave W]

tecumseh . . .

You are the first to ask smile.gif

REFERENCES:
1 - BEEKEEPING FOR DUMMIES, Howland Blackiston, 2002
2 - KEEPING BEES, John Vivian, 1986
3 - THE NEW COMPLETE GUIDE TO BEEKEEPING, Roger A. Morse, 1994
4 - BEEKEEPING: A PRACTICAL GUIDE, Richard E. Bonney, 1993
5 - THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE, Roy A Grout, 1963
6 - BRUSH MOUNTAIN BEE FARM, 2003 Catalog
7 - HIVE MANAGEMENT, Richard Bonney, 1990
8 - HONEY IN THE COMB, Eugene E. Killion, 1981
9 - THE ABC AND XYZ OF BEE CULTURE, Morse & Flottum, 1990
10 - THE ABC AND XYZ OF BEE CULTURE, A. I. Root, 1974
11 - HOW TO KEEP BEES AND SELL HONEY, Walter T. Kelley, 1983
12 - THE HIVE and the HONEY BEE, Joe M. Graham, 1992
13 - BEEKEEPING, Eckert & Shaw, 1960
14 - PRACTICAL BEEKEEPING, Tompkins & Griffith, 1983
15 - THE BEEKEEPER'S HANDBOOK, Sammataro & Avitabile, 1998
16 - MITES OF THE HONEY BEE, Webster & Delaplane, 2001
17 - QUEEN REARING & BEE BREEDING, Harry H. Laidlaw & Robert E. Page, 1997

>it is my further understanding that confectionary suger does not contain corn starch

The "powdered sugar" sold in my local super markets says it is "confectionary sugar" too, and says it DOES contain corn starch.

[ June 01, 2006, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Dave W ]

[divebee]

I have read warnings about using the supermarket powder sugar, but then others said it's ok. So I tried it once and my queen ate some of it and died an hour or so later. I'm not sure if it was the powder sugar I used, but am now using Michael Bush's method of just granulated sugar and the microwave and a couple drops of water. If my queen lives, ( just made some for a queen today) I will continue using this method.

[tecumseh]

thank ya' dave...

nice library. I am a bit envious.

[REDTRACTOR1]

You can also use karo syrup and powdered sugar that does not contain corn starch. You have to keep adding powdered sugar to the syrup till it gets real tough. Usually like hard dough.