Virgin ascendance

[leafcutter]

I started a new hive from split on 3/27, with several swarm cells in it.

On 4/6, I spotted a virgin and noted all but 2 of the 12 original swarm cells had been taken down.

Between 4/1 (when I think the queen emerged) and 4/20, the mating weather was lousy (2 mediocre days).

So on 4/20, seeing no eggs after 2-3 weeks of virgin presence, and no longer able even to spot the virgin, I introduced a new queen, and the weather turned real warm.

Today, 4/23, I found the queen dead (still stuck in her cage) but eggs in several frames, all eggs 1-2 days old only, nicely in rows, no double lays, all at the bottom. Unable to spot a queen, but the bees were calm for a change.

The only thing I can figure, is that one of the swarm cells I saw on 4/6 emerged a few days later, and was kept alive by the hive even though the first virgin was there. After a few weeks of her not getting to business, they off'ed her and accepted the later emerging queen (who enjoyed good mating weather).

How common is it for a hive to keep multiple virgins alive for such a long time? Or, is there another possibility I'm missing?

[Michael Bush]

Maybe your queen mated but just didn't start laying until now. Also maybe your queen didn't mate and will turn out to be a drone layer. I'd wait until the cells are capped and you'll see. By then she should be fat and slow and easier to find and you'll know if you have to find her.

[leafcutter]

Does it mean anything, then, that the queen waited so long to lay? Is it a sign of weak mating? Or, do they do that if they've started to mate, but want more flights before they settle down? She started laying right after a run of nice days.

If she's unmated and laying drones, too bad I couldn't spot her or I'd have removed her before putting in the new queen they rejected. One reason I'm looking forward to getting all regressed to small cell is I think it'll make queen spotting easier.

Either way, I'll post in 2 weeks, once the cells get capped.

[Michael Bush]

>Does it mean anything, then, that the queen waited so long to lay? Is it a sign of weak mating?

It would make me suspicious of her being mated at all, but I wouldn't consider it proof of anything. The proof will be in the brood. If you get a good pattern of workers, then I wouldn't worry about it.

[MountainCamp]

It can take a virgin queen 2 weeks or more to mature sexually, fly, mate, and then begin to lay after emergance.

So, if she emerged on or about the 6th, 14 days gives you the 20th, and you have eggs the 23rd.

The timing seems fine.

[Michael Bush]

He said she emerged on about about the 1st would would be 22 days.

[MountainCamp]

Actually, he said
-that on the 6th he saw a virgin queen.
-that on the 20th he saw no eggs.
-that on the 23rd there were 1 - 2 day old eggs.
-the weather from the 1st to the 20th was not great. But, there was some flying weather.

I always figure that the range of days for a queen to emerge and start laying is as follows:
5 – 10 days to mature sexually and be able to fly,
5 – 10 days to mate and start laying.
From egg to laying is 26 to 36 days.

There was 14 days from the 6th to the 20th with a queen and no eggs seen. Then 3 days later there are 1 – 2 day old eggs.
So on day 15 from seeing the virgin queen there are eggs.

Again, the time line works for me.

[MountainCamp]

Leafcutter, have the larve been capped yet?

Worker brood will be capped after 9 days from egg laying and approximately 6 days after hatching.

How has your hive made out?

[leafcutter]

Finally got a chance to get out and check on things. At 12 days since last check I figured those 2 hives would be made or broke by now.

Sure enough, both have big, fat queens who've layed multiple frames which at this point are a smorgasbord of eggs, larvae, and capped sheets. About 3-5% are drone cells only.

Forgot to bring matches. Opened them up without smoke, in a breeze, at 56 degrees, on a cloudy day when all the bees were home - still had only had 1 fussy guard bee the whole time. What a difference a queen makes, compared to their irritability 3 weeks ago.

[MountainCamp]

glad to hear it.

[chief]

I did the exact same thing last year. We always have bad weather during the early queen mating season. My took 35+ days to start laying! She turned out to be a great productive queen and I have used her hive to make splits from this year. It was cold and rainy the entire 35 days so I just let it be and lucked out.