the best cell cups

[TwT]

what the advantages of wooden cell cups vs plastic, I still want to make my own wax cell cups to fit inside these reason being I can take the cell off the frame bar easier.. the only supplier I can find that still sales the wooded cell cups is walter kelly..

[ April 15, 2006, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: TwT ]

[Michael Bush]

I can only say, given a choice, the bees always prefer wood to plastic. smile.gif In anything. That said, I have no real problems with the plastic.

[TwT]

Is kelly the only supplier for the wood cell cups?

[tecumseh]

the wax cell cups need to be polished prior to use and it is my understanding that the plastic cups do not (so this is an extra step required if you decide to use wax cell cups). the little wood dowl base makes the ripe queen cell much easier for me to handle. the supply catalog states that the plastic cups should not be reused, while the wood dowel base and wax cup are reusable (or at least I reuse both).

[TwT]

what I want to do is get the wood and I make my own wax cell cups, was wanting to use the wood just to mount my wax cups in so it would be easier to remove from the cell bar, I have seen the plastic has like a flange on the top of the cup to put between 2 frames, well I have only seen pictures of plastic, just was wondering if anyone has tried them both and which one they like the best....

[eaglesbee]

TWT i have had good luck with using a cork that tapers i us wax and melt wax to hold the wax cell cup than i make us melted wax to atach the cork to the frame bars
eaglesbee

[Bob Russell]

Ted
Here are some shots attaching plastic cell cups to a cell bar in our operation earlier this year.

http://tinyurl.com/jaqvc

You could wax dip and fasten your wax cell cups directly onto the face of a good comb facing in downward direction and use this as your cell holder.This method was developed by C.A.Greig of New Zealand in the early forties.The plastic cell cups without lugs could be substituted and just pushed into the comb.

[TwT]

Bob, that's the Idea I have, Just was wondering about is do you just graft into the plastic cup or make a wax cell and then a drop of wax and then put your wax cell in the plastic? this is the idea I was thinking about doing with the wood cups, not actually using the wood or plastic to graft to just adding a wax cell cup in them, is this a good idea or not or just over kill?

[D. Murrell]

Hi Guys,

I like the JzBz plastic cups coated with beeswax. You have to coat them yourself. But it's fairly simple. Just use a strainer and hot, molten beeswax.

Place a handful of plastic cups in the strainer. Immerse and swirl them in the molten beeswax. Then remove them from the beeswax and continue to swirl them for a minute or two in the air, letting all the excess wax fall back into the pan.

When finished, the cups should have a very thin coating(film) of beeswax on them. If a few have an excess amount, just process them again.

Regards
Dennis

[D. Murrell]

Hi Guys,

There's another option that works great. It's especially good if you only need a few hundred cups. And that's to make your own out off beeswax.

It's a simple process and Laidlow covers it in his first book.

Basically, a queen cup should be 9mm in diameter and 9mm deep. Taber researched the size using glass cups. Cups this size were always accepted.

The easiest way to make them is by forming them on the end of a hardwood dowel. Take a 3/8" dowell. Cut off a few 6" lengths. Then shape them by putting them in your drill and using it like a wood lathe. Use a coarse sandpaper to round the tip and then finish it off with a fine sandpaper.

Make a couple of them. And soak them in water before using them. Melt some beeswax in a pan. The wax should just be above the melting point and not too hot. Melt the wax and then let it cool off. When wax starts to slightly solidify along the top margin off the pan, it's usually at the right temp.

Now, take a dowel from the water. Give it a quick shake and touch it's bottom end to a paper towel to remove any free water. Then quickly dip it into the melted beeswax and withdraw it. Don't dip it any deeper than about 1/2 a cup deep. Let it cool for a few seconds and then dip it again, a little deeper and withdraw/cool as before. The last dip goes all the way to about 9mm deep.

Withdrawn it. Take another dowel and repeat the process for another cup. When that cup it done. Set it aside and remove the first cup off the dowel by giving it a slight twist and pusing it off. If the cups start sticking to the dowel, let the dowel soak in some water for a time. And then use it again.

I've made thousands of cups this way. It's fast. They're the best cups. They cost nothing. But they are fragile when compared to plastic.

When attaching them, pour a spot of wax on the grafting bar. It will approximate what a wood chip or cup would do. It should be thick enough to easily cut and handle the queen cell which will be attached to it. Then attach one of your new wax cups to it by holding a cup on that spot and pouring a little beeswax around the cups base. This wax should be hotter than that used to dip the cup.

This process can be combined in to one step with the dipped cup still on the dowel. The dowel makes a great handle for holding the cup in the right position. And the cup can be twisted off the dowel once the wax cools sufficiently.

Bars composed of 10 to 15 dowels can be dipped at one time and fastened at one time on a grafting bar. This is how I did it when I used this method.

Be sure to use clean, pesticide free beeswax. And if the cups are to be stored, keep them clean.

I've also seen queen cup molds. Molten beeswax is poured into them much like a candle mold. And then a half dozen or so cups, resembling the pressed beeswax kind, can be popped out. I haven't used one but thought about making one for the fun of it.

Regards
Dennis
Thinking not everyone needs to buy thousands of wood or plastic cups.

[ April 16, 2006, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: B Wrangler ]

[TwT]

thats what I have done dennis, made my own using a dole rod and wax, I put a layer of wax on my cell bars so when I cut the cell off I wouldn't hurt the cell, but what I was talking about was using the wood cell cup and getting a drop or two of wax in the cup to hold one of my wax cell cups in it, reason why is that it would be alot easier getting the cell off the bar than having to cut it off with a razor... ever tried this method, just wanting to know if yaw think it might work. still want to keep making my own wax cells but just looking for a easier way to remove them from the bar..

[TwT]

I might just try to wax some small wooden plugs on the bars to stick my wax cell cups to.. guest I could find something that will work,

[MichaelW]

Dennis,

Do you polish, or allow the bees to polish, the plastic cups that you wax?

[D. Murrell]

Hi MIchaelW,

I've done it both ways and have used them without any polishing. I didn't see any difference in acceptance either way. I think the secret is to have a very thin coating of beeswax on the plastic cups.

When using a Chinese tool, all of the royal jelly and the larva are placed in the cup. That probably buffers the need for polishing. Polishing might be more critical when dropping a larva on the cup bottom without its bed of royal jelly. I always used polished cups and primed them with a 50/50 mixture of royal jelly and water when using those other kinds of grafting tools. The larva were accepted better that way.

I bet you guys want to know how I polished the cups. I used a high quality Q/Tip with a firm end. This was inserted into the waxed cup and quickly rotated between the thumb and forefinger several times. The heat created in the cup would effectively polish the cell bottom. Be sure the tips are firm or cotton fibers can get incorporated into the wax.

Regards
Dennis

[nursebee]

I started by using the dowel dipping method. I had a tough time keeping them in shape as by big hands grafted and the more you handle them the more fall off the bar. I switched to Mann Lake's JZBZ (I think) and liked them. I bought the ones that go in a groove, some of them seem to fall out also. THis year I am going with the ones that fit in a 25/64" hole. After doing the length of the bar, one or two might not stay in. If needed, I can graft one cup in my hand and easily slide it onto the bar.

I wax mine by melting some section honey wax with some water, add 200 cups to the melted mess and shake them up. THis then gets dumped out and shaken onto a hive top with rot holes for water to drain out, but a SBB would do the job as well. A few of the cups get too much wax and a few get an air bubble in the bottom of the cup. Easy to re do these.

[chillardbee]

>dennis on making dowels to dip your own cells

when the 3/8 dowel is used there is a taper from 1 1/2" from the tip to 1/4 to 5/16 at tip where it is rounded. the slight flare in the cell helps in removing the dowel. I've tried the drill idea to lathe the dowels but it always wobbels, i think if your fortunate enough to have a freind or know someone who has a lathe then by all means see if you could just use it for a quick moment and hopefuly he has a caliper as well.

i've dipped my own cells and tried putting them wood dowel chip bases and they do help in handeling ripe cells but it's quicker and easier to just mount them on wood chips fastened with wax.

i've never let the bees polish the cell cups before grafting but i can see the sense in that, thanks for the advice.

great, all this talk about cell cups and all, i think i'll get my cell builders ready now :D