Queen rearing schedule

[Chef Isaac]

I am going to attempt to rear a few queens using grafting. Here is my schedule that I typed out. Any ideas are welcome. Basiclly, I would like to stream line the process and be able to use one hive for the cell builder and finisher hive. When the queens hatch, they will hatch in a hair curler and than I will take them to some queenless nucs. Here is the schedule. Any advice or ideas are welcome.

Queen Rearing Schedule


Pre Day 1: Pick out good hive. Find queen and place her on bottom deep and place queen excluder on top of bottom deep.

Pre Day 0: Get everything ready

Day 1: Place drawn out empty deep frame in the bottom deep. Spray with sugar solution.

Day 3: Eggs hatch.

Day 4: Take out breeding frame to graft. Replace with the original frame. Graft into cell cups. Place queen and one frame of brood and one frame of honey in a nuc. Place the grafting frame in the queenless hive (cell builder).

Day 8: cells are sealed

Day 14: take grafting frame out of cell builder and cap with cages.

Day 16: Cells hatch. Take grafting frame out of cell builder, mark, crush the hatched cell, and place in queenless nucs or hives

Day 22: Queens mate. Temp needs to be above 69 degrees

Day 27: Queens begin laying

[mark williams]

Imo,take the Queen out on day 3,that way they have been queenless a full day,>>>>Mark

[JBJ]

Chef, I like to put the ripe cells on day 10 directly into the mating nucs, I think the acceptance rate will be substantially higher for a ripe cell than for a virgin. Also cell builders can be queen-right; and if properly arranged can be easier to maintain because there is less random queen cells started and if many grafts are planned there is a continual supply of new bees to support the cell builder. Just a few thoughts.
JBJ

[Michael Bush]

>Day 1: Place drawn out empty deep frame in the bottom deep. Spray with sugar solution.

How do you know the queen will lay in it?

>Day 3: Eggs hatch.

Probably not until day 4.

>Day 4: Take out breeding frame to graft. Replace with the original frame. Graft into cell cups. Place queen and one frame of brood and one frame of honey in a nuc. Place the grafting frame in the queenless hive (cell builder).

I agree you need to remove the queen on day 3 to set up the cell builder.

>Day 16: Cells hatch. Take grafting frame out of cell builder, mark, crush the hatched cell, and place in queenless nucs or hives

If you're going to put them in nucs or hives anwyay why not make the nucs up or remove the queens on day 13 and put the cells in on day 14. That way acceptance will not be an issue.

>Day 27: Queens begin laying

Maybe. I always figure day 28, but a lot of them will be laying by day 27.

[BjornBee]

The only thing I will comment on is the moving of queen cells out on the 10th day as JBJ mentions. Moving frames into cell builders and incubators and other finishing/banking hives I can see from a frame by frame basis. I am not saying that with experience it can not be done, but moving and installng individual cells on day 10, you really run the risk of queen damage. I would rather drop or jarr a 14 day queen when installing into a nuc, than a 10 day queen cell.

Is the moving on the 10th day versus later a management item with timing and scheduling? I can not imagine a huge difference between a two day cell exceptance and a 6 day need for the same thing.

I like to take mine out on the 14th day and place directly into a recently made nuc. This give a 24 to 48 hour window for exceptance and I do not see a problem.

[wayacoyote]

Bjorn,
What your saying is later (to a point) is better than too early when handling capped queen cells?

I have 1 I need to cut from a frame so that I can divide my cells into 2 mating nucs.

Waya

[Michael Bush]

My other problem. You started on day 1. It's hard to count days that way since no days have elapsed on day 1. I start on day 0 confining the queen and count from there. Day 4 the eggs have hatched (four days after day 0). Day 14 the cells are ready to be transfered to themating nucs (which you should have setup on day 13).

Basically this is it:

0 Confine queen.
1 Release queen.
3 Setup Cell Starter.
4 Transfer larvae.
(8 Cells are capped)
13 Setup mating nucs.
14 Transfer the queen cells to the mating nucs.
(16 queens typically emerge. Sometimes on day 15 in hot weather)
28 Laying queen.

[Joao Campos]

Could this scheme be simplified enough so it might fit a weekend beekeeper schedule? And still getting good queens?

Assume the only available days to work the hives are Saturday and Sunday. A possible schedule would be:

Day 0 (Sat): dequeen the cell builder colony
Day 1 (Sun): transfer larvae from the breeder hive, place the grafting frame in the builder hive
Day 7 (Sat): Set up the mating nucs
Day 8 (Sun): Place the 7 day cells in the nucs
Days 21/22 (Sat/Sun): queen laying (or almost)


Doubts:

- Would a breeder queen confinement in two empty frames one week before the grafting be useful to get more/better/easier to find 1 day old larvae to graft?

- Are 7 day cells too sensitive to handling? Maybe that's the main concern about weekend queen rearing. Would the transfer of more than one cell to each nuc compensate for some inevitable cell damages?

- Any alternatives?

Best regards,

João

[tarheit]

Looks good to me.

I don't find any real need to confine the queen to empty frames. When you only grafting a few cells you can pretty much find brood of the right age very easily. If you have eggs and brood in a frame, chances are of the 5000 or so cells there are also lots of 1 day old brood.

I don't find 7 day old cells all that sensitive. Often to help out with the timing and weather I move sealed cells to an incubator and I know some of the big queen outfits do as well. Sometimes they are moved right after they are capped. You do need to be careful and not jar them. I transport the frame either in a portable incubator (http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/16.32.0.0.1.0.phtml) or nuc box so they don't get chilled.

It may help to put more than one in a nuc since you can't candle them that early to see if they are really good. Queen cell protectors may help as well to keep workers from tearing them down in the nucs.

-Tim

[Michael Bush]

I think confining the queen if you're grafting, is most useful for newbees so you KNOW the age of the larvae. But after a few times you'll know what larvae looks like right after they hatch and you can just look for some the right age.

[wayacoyote]

This is a good point, Michael.
Right now, I'm rearing some queens on frames that contained Brood in all Stages. I went back on Day 4 to cut out capped queen cells. However, unsure of when the subsequent ones were capped, I don't know when they'll emerge. Could have been yesterday, could be this Friday. While I'm not concerning myself, it would be to a newbee's benefit to know so they can better plan and monitor their progress.

Waya

[MichaelW]

I've found confining the queen does not work in my weekend warrior routine. I've been looking for a frame that has eggs and brood, not hard to find, then I graft the smallest larvae that is possible for me to do. Smaller, and they dissapear in the royal jelly. The smallest size thats possible for me to graft is about 1/3 the size of a grain of rice.

Here's the scedule I used last time with 4% success. smile.gif Hey it was my first time, can't blame the schedule, yet.

Saturday - put together cell builder colony. (Remove queen with 4 medium frames of bees, 10 frames of comb removed total, take most of the uncapped brood)Make sure to leave pollen.

Saturday (a little later) - graft larvae

Sunday (8 days later) - Set up Mateing Nuc.

Sunday (a little later) - remove queen cells from grafts and any frames that also have cells on them. Replace frames with frames of capped brood and or Pollen, add grafts again, and shake some bees into a box on top with newspapaer on inner cover hole.

Feeding the cell builders syrup the hole time.

Sound realistic?

[Michael Bush]

>Saturday - put together cell builder colony. (Remove queen with 4 medium frames of bees, 10 frames of comb removed total, take most of the uncapped brood)Make sure to leave pollen.

>Saturday (a little later) - graft larvae

How much later? I'd wait 2 hours minimum. Four wouldn't hurt. Personally I'd leave a little open brood right next to the queen cells to draw the bees there. I would also shake off ALL of the bees (except the queen) from ALL the frames you remove. (not EVERY bee, but 99% of them) The Cell starter should be overflowing with bees.

>Sunday (8 days later) - Set up Mateing Nuc.

>Sunday (a little later) - remove queen cells from grafts and any frames that also have cells on them. Replace frames with frames of capped brood and or Pollen, add grafts again, and shake some bees into a box on top with newspapaer on inner cover hole.

I wouldn't move the queen cells until Monday. Sunday would be day 12 (from when the egg was laid). I'd wait until at LEAST day 13 and usually I go for day 14. I try to set up the mating nucs 24 hours before, or at least 12 hours before.

If you want to shake more bees in, just shake them in from four or five hive into a box and then dump the box in. The chaos of all those different sources will keep them from all getting defensive. But I'd probably just give them emerging brood if I want to boost the population.

[MichaelW]

Thanks.