I want to learn to graft!

[Chef Isaac]

Straight to the point, I would like to learn to graft! Just something to keep me busy!

I tried the nicto system... its ok but not really for me. I have seen the Ohio mathod and it works pretty good.

But I would like to learn to graft.

Can anyone suggest any books..... any videos.. any web sites that goes over the proceduce to graft?

Or anyone interested in emailing back and fourth to attempt to teach how to graft?

[Michael Bush]

The video from www.beeworks.com (http://www.beeworks.com) is good. But mostly it takes a lot of practice. First to learn to judge the age of the larvae, and then to transfer it without damaging it and with the maximum amount of royal jelly. Between my lack of visual acuity and my lack of manual dexterity, I prefer a graftless system. That said, I'm taking a queen rearing class in a few weeks and maybe I'll learn to do it better. smile.gif

[cmq]

Once you learn to graft you will seldom use the "graftless system" ... been there done that. This way you dont have to find or disturb the queen nor wait several days to transfer the larva. Practice, practice, practice, Email me at coldmtnqueens at aol dot com.

[jalal]

talk to fbman in the chat room, hes a wealth of information regarding grafting

[tecumseh]

All I can suggest is to read as much as possible and then practice. As time has gone by and my eye sight has dimmed, I find one of those light-magnifying glasses on a pivoting arm is of great benefit. Now I have used grafting needle fashioned from coat hangers, but I would also recommend an automatic grafting needle. The main reason for this is not so much getting the little larvae on the end of the needle as much as getting the little devil off and into the cup.

[jalal]

also, be sure to get a good taste of that royal jelly smile.gif

its an experience to remember

[Chef Isaac]

I am so interested in learning and somewhat suprised on the lack of info published about grafting. I would love to learn how.

[jalal]

any specific questions?

do you understand how the process works?

are you wondering about the specific GRAFTING portion?

puttin' yer' stick in and pulling it out with some jelly?

[Chef Isaac]

I would like to know about the whole process from start to finish.

[jalal]

Grafting tool, FBM, Don, suggests:

"...a piece of #12 copper wire punded flat on end to form a spoon the sand smooth bend it ti a 15 degree angle go under the white jelly and slide it from under larvea..."

( http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000270#000000 )

The Right Sized Larva, Rob gives us a tip:

"One important thing for beginners to get right at first is the correct larva size, actually not only beginners but all of us. A good way to get the correct size- age larva is to place an empty frame of drawn comb into the middle of the brood nest for the queen to lay on for 4 day before you want to graft. This frame will then have correct size and smaller. Be careful not to graft eggs."

( http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000123#000003 )

From the same thread, Michael gives another tip:

"When people talk about only transfering larvae that are too small to see, they don't mean just that its too small (you can see an egg and it's smaller). But when it first hatches and is fed it is transparent and in a pool of transparent liquid. You can easily think there isn't a larvae there, but they wouldn't be feeding it if there wasn't. That's the right age."

I'd get a read also of:

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000033#000000

It's not everything, but it sure is a start.

[mark williams]

Thank's Jalal: For your back research on the subject,Also a thank's To Don
Rob
Michael
&
Dee
And to anyone else that has added info on this subject.
That is what it is all about. one helping another.


;) ;)

[Chef Isaac]

I have done a lot of the back research jalal. I am looking for either a book or someone to walk me through the steps of the whole process.

[mark williams]

Although the book is not entirely devoted to Queen rearing the is a good chapter in the book.The Hive And the honey bee.

[jalal]

before i shutup smile.gif

http://www.kutikshoney.com/grafting/queens.htm

gives good detail from what i've grazed over it

and

http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/Mussen/beebriefs/Quality.pdf

helps strengthen some information out, even if i don't agree with everything it says.

i treat my bees too.

grr, watch out.

i don't know about you, but i'd rather eat sawdust and smell toothpaste all the time than have these things drinking my blood and have these wonderful wings and halo of mine shrivel up

[Chef Isaac]

Those are pretty good links.

Maybe this is a "try it by myself and figuar it out through trial and error" sorta thing.

[jalal]

I've tried to get to the bottem of it, its one of those things that everyone thinks something different.

but i'd talk to FBM if you can, he needs to give his talk on this post, from start to finish.

[mark williams]

http://mkat.iwf.de/mms/metafiles/02000018010220000000_lo.asx,This was on this forum awhile back.

[mark williams]

Sorry about that.think this wii work.
http://mkat.iwf.de/mms/metafiles/02000018010220000000_lo.asx

[Drifter]

Is there a way to save that to your computer ? I tried but said was copywrighted and couldn't be copied .

Drifter

[jalal]

i'm going to make a video on queen rearing next year

[tecumseh]

Chef Issac adds:
I have done a lot of the back research jalal. I am looking for either a book or someone to walk me through the steps of the whole process.

tecumseh ask:
Grafting is simply the act of moving a larvae from worker cell to queen cell cup. This is 'not' a process, it is one step of a longer process that is called queen rearing. The process requires some attention to detail and there are of course a number of choices (some minor and some not so minor) to made along the process route. There is another thread running concurrently about queen rearing books (or something like that) in which Michael Bush gives a web site (Ohio something) of one of the possible alternative for queen rearing.

If you have any futher quesiton about the details of grafting (or whatever) feel free to contact me via this forum host. Anyway... wish you luck brother.

[Michael Bush]

>Michael Bush gives a web site (Ohio something) of one of the possible alternative for queen rearing.

http://www.ohioqueenbreeders.com/

http://members.aol.com/queenb95/queenrear.html

[Chef Isaac]

Do you have to prime each cup with royal jelly?

[Michael Bush]

Have to? No. Need to? No. Can you? If you like.

You'll have to steal some from other queen cells. One method is to double graft. You graft the cells and put them in a cell builder and when they are feeding them, take the cell builder out and remove the larvae and put new larvae in. smile.gif I've never done it, but they should have LOT'S of royal jelly. smile.gif But you could also steal all the royal jelly. Put it in a small container. Something like the smallest thing you can find hand cream etc. in. Use a small spatula and put it in. It will turn kind of brown and dried eventually, but the bees quickly replace it anyway.

[Nick Noyes]

I like to use the tool Mann Lake sells from China. It's the only good thing to come out of China for us beekeepers. Make sure you have a good cell builder and graft out of a good hive in a nectar flow or syrup flow and you will get good cells. Try not to make it difficult because it's not. Just my opinion.

[tecumseh]

Nick Noyes sezs:
Make sure you have a good cell builder and graft out of a good hive in a nectar flow or syrup flow and you will get good cells. Try not to make it difficult because it's not. Just my opinion.

tecumseh replies:
I am with Nick, lots of detail but really not that difficult. You just need to be more like Mike Jordan and just do it...

Another reason I like the automatic grafting needle is that the little tongue of the device is just the right size so that it is almost impossible to craft a larvae that is too old. Hint number 1: when trying to locate larvae for grafting I mentally cut the bottom of the cell into six pie slices, an appropriate size larvae will fit into one of the slices.
Hint number 2: make sure the queen breeding hive is VERY well fed either via a honey flow or by feeding suger water two week in advance to grafting. It is 'much' easier to graft a larvae that is floating in a good pool of food stuff.

[teen-bee]

thanks for the link mark. the queen rearing video really help a lot. Do you/everyone have more video links on queen rearing or the doolittle grafting procedure/method? really would appreciate any help... thanks:)