RUSSIAN QUEENS?

[Bob D]

Is is true that the russion queen, and therefore her young, are a LOT more resistant to the Varroa Mite? Are Russian Bees as easy to work with as the Italians?

If this is true, are Russian Queens available and what is the average cost?

Last but not least, I installed my package April 16th this year. If I could get a Russian Queen,should I not re-queen this year because of the newness of the hive?

Any info, ideas, suggestion in this area would be helpful.

PS: Sorry for all the various posts in different areas about different topics, but I'm new and would rather work like a dog now and insure I can overcome problems and have a decent hive rather than loosing my first hive and getting depressed and loosing interest. I've always wanted to do this! Starting out with a loss would be depressing.

[Michael Bush]

>Is is true that the russion queen, and therefore her young, are a LOT more resistant to the Varroa Mite?

That's the theory. I'm sure the ones I've had are not pure Russians (as indicated by the fact that they aren't black) but I didn't see that much difference.

> Are Russian Bees as easy to work with as the Italians?

The ones I've had are a bit more defensive and will follow a bit further. Not necessarily more prone to sting, but more prone to head butt and follow.

>If this is true, are Russian Queens available and what is the average cost?

The cheap ones are not pure Russians. Pure Russians that I've seen are pretty expensive.

>Last but not least, I installed my package April 16th this year. If I could get a Russian Queen,should I not re-queen this year because of the newness of the hive?

If you want a Russian queen, requeen it.

>Starting out with a loss would be depressing.

Yes, but sometimes, no matter what you do, you lose one.

[BerkeyDavid]

Hi Bob

<Last but not least, I installed my package April 16th this year. If I could get a Russian Queen,should I not re-queen this year because of the newness of the hive?

I would spend a year learning about bees before jumping into requeening. I would not requeen your new hive unless you have a failure. There is a learning curve, lots of stuff to figure out.

If you really want to change, I would work on getting this hive through the winter and then next spring do a split and requeen the split with your new Russian Queen.

[Jon McFadden]

Bob,
I got wiped out with the mites several years ago. I just couldn't bring myself to put Apistan Strips in my hives. I decided then that if this was the only way one could keep bees, I was through. Three years ago, I picked up 2 nucs from Jester Bee Company, located in West Ridge, Arkansas.
I have been watching them since. There hasn't been a sign of mite damage, yet.
The bees I had before (feral) always had bees on the ground with mite damage.
Kevin told me the area around his mating nucs was populated almost exclusively with Russian drones. The surrounding commercial operators had converted over, too.
My apiary is somewhat isolated from other beekeepers in my area, and even after three years the drones and the workers are still dark.
This does bring up one problem with the Russians. They are prone to swarming.
On the other hand, they build up early enough here to bring in a surplus of tupelo honey. My other bees would build up on it.
This year I bought two nucs and two queens. We caught 8 or 9 swarms and requeened what we could.
I was told Italian bees were a little hard to requeen with a Russian. The ones we requeened didn't seem to care. They just wanted to be queenright.
Jon

[BjornBee]

If your requeening for the purpose of having a particular strain go through winter, than I would fall requeen. Spring requeening does not say that the same queen will be around come fall. If you are into the hive alot, know swarm prevention and are generally on top of things, than you know when bees swarm. Marking queens helps(I don't do it myself). Alot of hives swarm and is not even known to the beekeeper.

As for the Russians being a "theory" in the area of being more mite resistance, do some reading and make some phone calls. Purvis brothers apiaries, Champlain Valley bee with Kirk Webster, The Webbs of Georgia, Glenn apairies in California, Harper apairies, Sue Colby for NWC and SMR traits(also Minnisota Hygenic I believe), and a host of others who have published stories, first hand account, and much information on the matter. Many of these are producers so as not to blurr the lines of vested interest, VAbeekeeper, Ian, and many others from this site have had great comments concerning certain strains such as Russians having better mite resistance. Selecting, breeding, and other efforts including starting with particualr breeds in the fight against mites is a reality, not theory.

I hope for all the information on Russians, SMR, NWC, and other breeds selected for mite resistance, that we could call it a little more than "theory". I could see the hoopla if everytime someone mentioned smallcell, FGMO, or anything else, someone labeled it "theory". Some "theory" items are expressed over and over on this site and have alot less credibility than the ever increasing documentation of sucesses that beekeepers are having with russians and other strains.

I have italians, NWC, Russians, SMR. Not all strains are created equal. All have individual good points. And if you mention honey, buildup, aggressiveness, swarming, or any other trait about the individual bee lines, than many would have comments about which are better at whatever. But for some reason if you mention mite resistance of one breed over another, than the information gets blurry, and confusing for some.

[WG Bee Farm]

"But for some reason if you mention mite resistance of one breed over another, than the information gets blurry, and confusing for some."

Very good point. From all the information that I have gathered over the last year, the amount of "resistance" gained from the differt strains and traits is in direct relation to type of management, and the enthusiam generated among the beekeeper or researcher. (SMR, Hyg., NWC, Russian, etc.)
IMHO the industry does not have a queen or strain of bees that totally resist Varroa destructor. I don't believe you will find anyone that will promote a complete warranty on such. To do so would open them to suits for lost profits and expences when failures occur.
I like the Hyg. & Smr's but I don't totally trust them to suppress the mite 100%. I monitor and monitor and manage my bees in the way that I believe will keep the mite counts low.
Locally, and elsewhere I have heard of several beekeepers that claim no mites, and after talking with them you find out that they tested early spring, and have not tested since. The test of a resistant bee is constant monitoring and testing for mites during August or 2-3 weeks after the main flow is over. This is when the mites tend to peak.
Frank

"Rambling on"

[GreenMountainRose]

>As for the Russians being a "theory" in the area of being more mite resistance, do some reading and make some phone calls. Purvis brothers apiaries, Champlain Valley bee with Kirk Webster, The Webbs of Georgia, Glenn apairies in California, Harper apairies, Sue Colby for NWC and SMR traits(also Minnisota Hygenic I believe), and a host of others who have published stories, first hand account, and much information on the matter. Many of these are producers so as not to blurr the lines of vested interest, VAbeekeeper, Ian, and many others from this site have had great comments concerning certain strains such as Russians having better mite resistance. Selecting, breeding, and other efforts including starting with particualr breeds in the fight against mites is a reality, not theory.

FYI: Champlain Valley Bees reported this spring that they had a fifty percent loss of bees this year due to mites.

GMR

[BjornBee]

Greenmountain, Thanks. I did not hear that. Where was this report? I am interested if the report was directly based on mites or was it 50% due to other circumstances. There is alot of interest and research going on that it may not be mites but the viruses spread by them. Mite counts may not come into play but various other circumstances regardless of infestation may still kill hives. I hope this report contains data and info eliminating t-mites and other potential problems. I personally think t-mites had alot to do with winter kill in the northeast, but few have had them tested.

WG Bee, you yourself answered your own question as to why someone does not completely 100% cover bees with a warranty. You mention different types of management styles. And I can not agree more. Not all beekeeperas are good. Some just stink. I know, I see them all the time. Why would you think someone would put thier business on the line with promises with so much variation of beekeepers within the industry? Your asking someone to be insane.

As for the 100% suppression you are looking for and mention(total resistance), this also adds to the problem. Mite resistance/tolerance or survivability does not base it on never finding mites. Its having bees survive with mites. I had 285 hives last year recieve no treatment at all. Of my standard italians, loss was 55%. My russians had a hive kill of 15%. Will I say and give a warranty as such to other beekeepers who may not have proper management and experience? No way.

I'll start my IPM with stock that gives me the best chance. With each year of selection and breeding, hopefully this will improve. I think anyone claiming 100% anything is wrong. But can I say that Russians for me are more mite resistant than italians or some other line, you bet. The original poster asked if russians are "alot more" resistant. "alot" leaves too much room for discussion. For me last year it was the difference of 55% and 15%. I guees that was alot. smile.gif

[Dick Allen]

I hope the Russian thing works out. Last spring I received four packages that were supposedly headed up by Russian queens. I didn't do any mite treatments (or counts) on any of the hives last summer. Of the Russian queens one hive never did amount to much of anything and was combined with another next to it. That hive (uninsulated) came through the winter with the queen and enough bees to form a cluster small enough to cup in both my hands. There was unmistakable evidence of PMS and several bees spotted with phoretic mites. I brought the cluster home in an insulated nuc box, but the queen was gone by next day. Two others were overwintered in a side by side insulated two-pack consisiting of three full size hive bodies each. One came through with bees in all three boxes this spring! The one next to it in the pack had enough bees to fill one box decently. About two weeks ago the smaller hive lost it's queen and requeened itself. I split the big hive into the smaller hive. Time will tell.
BTW, all in all my Carniolans (both insulated and uninsulated) fared better coming out of winter, but none of them had the three boxes of bees per hive.

[GreenMountainRose]

Bjorn,

The report about the mites was on our local WCAX tv station a while back. They said they would be treating the bees with a "special oil."

[Michael Bush]

>They said they would be treating the bees with a "special oil."

FGMO? Thymol? Who knows what they meant.

[Dick Allen]

Could even be sucrocide. That has an oily smell to it.