View Full Version : Closed mated queens?
02-17-2004, 02:02 PM
What does Â“closed mated queensÂ” mean? Is close mating the same as Â“artificial inseminationÂ”?
Thanks and regards,
02-17-2004, 04:44 PM
>What does Â“closed mated queensÂ” mean? Is close mating the same as Â“artificial inseminationÂ”?
I don't hear that term much. I hear "open mated" and "II" and occasionally "AI". II is Instremental Insemination. I would assume it means that by whatever means, the source of the drones that inseminated the queen is known for a fact and not done in the open.
02-18-2004, 12:22 AM
Im not sure either but I think it refers to breeding the virgin queens back to their parents hive drones as opposed to open where drones from other hives are used in the mating
03-01-2004, 06:44 AM
Closed mated means there is a closed population so as to maintain a specific race or line of bees. For example NWC's are such. I believe Strachan apiaries does this, there might even be some info there about it.
Here is a clip from strachans site you can read between the lines and understand via this little snip:
The New World Carniolan population is vigorously evaluated. Working with a diverse gene pool, our goal is to maintain careful selection protocols on our population of New World Carniolan Queens by using the Page-Laidlaw Closed Population Breeding Program. Annually, a new generation of breeders is instrumentally inseminated, established in full size colonies, and evaluated in the field. From these the top performing colonies are selected to establish the next generation. Selection is a continuous process and essential to maintaining and improving the desired traits of this population. All of our breeding stock is hygienically tested. The reliability of the New World Carniolan program is time tested and industry proven. (Information regarding the NWC provided by Susan Cobey, Ohio State University)
You will have to research the Page-Laidlaw Closed Population Breeding Program for more detail and info.
03-13-2004, 11:39 AM
To quote Sue Cobey
The NWC Closed Population Breeding Program is one of the longest running breeding programs in existence. Its longevity and reputation speak for itself.
With todayÂ’s challenges, the need and increasing emphasis placed on stock improvement is well recognized. Honey producers, pollinators and sideliners producing their own queens need access to high quality stocks. For this reason, NWC breeding stock is now available to all beekeepers.
Established in 1982 at Vaca Valley Apiaries in northern California, the program moved to Ohio State University in 1990. This move opened the opportunity to concentrate on the selection and evaluation of the breeding stock. A Cooperative was formed with an exclusive group of California Queen Producers to provide NWC production queens to the industry. Now, this program is being expanded to make the breeding stock available to all interested beekeepers.
The breeding population will continue to be maintained and selected at OSU. As a working model of a Closed Population Breeding System, this is used in teaching the specialized beekeeping classes, providing the resources and necessary tools for stock improvement.
NEW WORLD CARNIOLAN
If a job is worth doing - Then do it well
03-13-2004, 12:29 PM
I understand the concept, just don't get the execution. How does one go about ensuring a "closed breeding population" when talking about honey bees? (in N. Calif no less) cj
Scot Mc Pherson
03-13-2004, 04:24 PM
Closed System means you have strict control of which bee breeds with which bee. This is accomplished with artificial insemination. Queens are selected from the hives that grade the best according to NWC program protocols (which means their grading and judging system). These queens are breed with drones from other hives that also grade best according to the protocols. Careful attention is made to ensure that inbreeding does not become an issue, and that a broad genetic pool is maintained. Sometimes genetic stock from outside the program is introduced into the program if the stock shows some promise or special quality that is desireable. These bees are rigorously tested and bred with program bees very thoroughly before the genetics are actually introduced into the program gene pool. These test gene pools are just as much closed system, but again they are "firewalled" from the program and the genes are kept in their own pool until they meet protocol specifications that allow their inclusion into the core gene pool. This introduction keep the gene pool fresh and broadened, and also allows desireable traits into the pool.
The queens that result from these artifical selections are the core breeders of the program. They are used to raise breeder queens which maintain the population and are supplied to program participant queen and bees suppliers. Once these queens have been supplied to the suppliers they are breed again by the suppliers whether using open or closed system, and the queens you buy from your suppliers are generally of the 3rd or 4th generation away from the 1st level mating of the program.
Breeder queens from the program cost $100's each and to restate are used to create the queens and bees you purchase from your participant suppliers. Everything within the core program is accomplished through artificial insemination, this is how the closed system is controlled in their case. The actual queens you purchase from your suppliers are usually open system breed at least for one generation, but their parents and grandparents are the pedegrees. Again, a pedegree queen costs $100s up to as far as I know $500 each for 1 yr tested pedegree queens.
It is theoretically possible to maintain a closed system if one were in such a secluded placed where there is no possibility of breeding with extra-curricular bees, but this isn't very plausible.
I may eventually attempt to start a breeding system similar to NWC bees, not because I think I can do better (I don't think so), but because NWCs are northern bee hybrids for the most part. I would like to attempt a breeding program with the same goals as the NWC program, but for southern italian bees. Something I am thinking about, and thinking about only, but I don't know anyone else doing so. For beekeepers in the tropics and sub-tropics, yellow bees are our best bet.
Scot Mc Pherson
"Linux is a Journey, not a Guided Tour" ~ Me
"Do or not do, there is no try" ~ Master Yoda
[This message has been edited by Scot Mc Pherson (edited March 13, 2004).]
03-13-2004, 05:33 PM
Â“Closed System means you have strict control of which bee breeds with which bee. This is accomplished with artificial insemination.Â” Strict control is the absolute answer and cj makes an interesting point (in N. Calif no less) I have done enough II to know that your drone source is not always from the exact hive that you catch them in front of, drones tend to drift. One way around this is to take drones from inside the hive itself. The main problem with this is that the young drone generally has not been on a cleansing flight and the chance of contamination with the semen is very likely. Having worked in N. Calif I understand and agree with cjÂ’s concerns.
I feel that Sue CobeyÂ’s statement Â“The NWC Closed Population Breeding Program is one of the longest running breeding programs in existence. Its longevity and reputation speak for itself.Â” Really does speak for itself.
Â“For beekeepers in the tropics and sub-tropics, yellow bees are our best bet.Â” I believe so too, and all strength to you, Scot
If a job is worth doing - Then do it well