Hair curler cages and cell protectors too small

[Michael Bush]

I put my queen cells in my mating nucs this morning. I was disappointed that both the hair curler cages and the cell protectors that I have are too small to fit over the cells. Is this a common problem? Of five cells NONE would fit. I made protectors from aluminum foil instead, but was wondering what others experience in this matter is.

Thanks.

[Clayton]

I have used 35mm camera bottles drill. Dee Lusby uses the small medicine bottles. Both will work.

Clay

[WineMan]

It is real common that they wont fit. After awhile, you will notice that some strains of bees dont use much wax to make the cells and other bees tend to make them really fat. You can easily trim the excess wax off the cell to make them fit the protector. At first you will be concerned about hurting the cell but they are fairly tough. Just becareful and dont damage the inside cocoon and everything will be fine.

[Michael Bush]

>I have used 35mm camera bottles drill.

Do you cut a hole in the bottom? How do you use it exactly?

>Dee Lusby uses the small medicine bottles.

Plastic ones with the bottom cut out?

[Michael Bush]

>You can easily trim the excess wax off the cell to make them fit the protector. At first you will be concerned about hurting the cell but they are fairly tough.

I have seen enough queen cells damaged accidently when doing basic manipulations that I am paranoid about damaging the cell.

>Just becareful and dont damage the inside cocoon and everything will be fine.

Do you have a technique for this? Do you trim it off with a pair of sissors? A knife? It's true the coccon isn't what is too big it's that extra wax they add to the outside.

[Clayton]

Micheal,

Do you cut a hole in the bottom? How do you use it exactly?

reply:

You could do that. But I don't. I just drill holes. I then attach the cell cups to the cap of the film bottle which I mount directly to cell bars w/ wax. Kinda like the wood cell bases except this just snaps onto bottle (may need a little wax trimming). I mainly use the bottles for transport of cells. Then when adding the cells to queenless nucs (ready for cells) I take off bottle and cap and cell hangs between frames.

>Dee Lusby uses the small medicine bottles.

Plastic ones with the bottom cut out?

reply:

Now Dee does things differently. She takes cells from starter/ finisher colony as soon as capped and places them all in an incubator. So once the cells are capped I believe they are on wood cell bases she places them in the bottle wedged with some wax and honey so the virgins can feed themselves. The cell protectors are to protect the virgins from tearing down cells. The virgins emerge right in the bottle. She then selects by color and certain markings that she looks for. Culls become swarm lure. Transported to full size colonies. Ed smokes the bees from bottom entrance till smoke comes out top. Dee crack the hive open above broodnest and supers (where they meet)and tosses in the virgin. The two often are found laying together in the spring she says and then old queen just fades out.

Clay

[Michael Bush]

Thanks. I guess I was interested in the cell protector to keep the bees in the mating nuc from tearing down the cell. And the hair curler cages so that I could, if desired, leave the virgins in the cell builder and introduce them to hives as virgins. Looks like neither will really work unless I want to risk triming the excess wax. I've worked too hard to get them to raise cells to risk everything over that.

[Clayton]

Michael, the nucs if primed to except cells shouldn't really need a cell protector. Mostly cell protectors are used to keep the fellow virgins from tearing down cells as happens after a swarm where 1st one emerges and the bees tear the cells down and fighting amoung virgins, ect. I wonder if you could smoke queenless nucs up and toss in a virgins as Lusby's do to full sized colonies with equal results? I personally just smoke the nuc quick to run down the bees and slip the cell in and have good luck as long as the nucs are cell free and been queenless for 24 hrs or so. I'm no expert at virgin introduction but adding cells to nucs without cell protection works fine for me.

Clay

[Michael Bush]

>Dee crack the hive open above broodnest and supers (where they meet)and tosses in the virgin. The two often are found laying together in the spring she says and then old queen just fades out.

What time of year is she requeening like this? Spring? Summer? Fall?

>Mostly cell protectors are used to keep the fellow virgins from tearing down cells as happens after a swarm where 1st one emerges and the bees tear the cells down and fighting amoung virgins, ect.

According to my Doolittle in my "Scientific Queen Rearing" he came up with them to keep the bees from tearing them down. His were hardware cloth. I've also read it in a couple of other books.

>I wonder if you could smoke queenless nucs up and toss in a virgins as Lusby's do to full sized colonies with equal results?

I have heard of it being done, but have no experience in it.

>I personally just smoke the nuc quick to run down the bees and slip the cell in and have good luck as long as the nucs are cell free and been queenless for 24 hrs or so.

I put the cells in this morning. I only lightly smoked them, but partly I had to make sure I didn't accidently get a virgin queen in the nucs since two of the hives I was shaking bees from didn't seem to have a queen. I got paranoid that they may have superceded and I caught them with a virgin. I didn't smoke them heavily beacuase it would only work against me finding a queen if she was there.

>I'm no expert at virgin introduction but adding cells to nucs without cell protection works fine for me.

I may try it next time. I've had so many problems so far, I didn't want to take any chances.

[Iowabeeman]

This is our first year of raising queens so I'm no expert. We really didn't know what the function of the cell protector was but we threw them away when the cells didn't fit. We really haven't had any problems introducing the cell. We are mating them in nucs with about a half frame of bees.

[Iowabeeman]

In regard to introducing queens into nucs, sometimes we just run them in the entrance. This has to be done shortly after sundown. Don't ask me why this works. I have no idea. A guy from California told me about it.

[WineMan]

I use protectors out of habit but you can get by without them just as easily. My preference for them is that they protect the cell from me. The most common way for me to damage a cell is by potential smashing between frames when inserting it.

I usually just use a knife to trim the wax down off the sides. Eventually you will get over the fear.....probably the first time there is a big honey flow after the cells are capped and they web them all together with comb!!!! Then you will be forced to cut them out.

The wax can be much bigger than the cocoon area...sometime pull the end off a nice long capped cell. You will find a large gap of space from there to the end of where the larvae spun.

Nice big cells indicate that the environment was good for nurturing the larvae but there is only a given amount of space that is actually needed to raise a queen and the rest is just wasted wax.

[Clayton]

>What time of year is she requeening like >this? Spring? Summer? Fall?

Not sure. I will find out but think it is the fall but could be wrong. Will check with Dee, last I heard she is closing in on 100+ barrels of honey this season so she's quite busy.

Clay

[WineMan]

Glad someone is getting some honey. Must be the first good harvest they have had in those parts in a few years.

[Hook]

I do the same as Dee. I have roller cages, and the all seem to fit. I have had some extra burr comb attached to the cell, but I put mine right in the incubator. About two days before emergence, I put the rollers on, with a little honey on the bottom. They emerge, and then I can do whatever with them. I built the incubator, for that reason, I can manage my time alot easier.
I introduce the virgins similar to a mated one. Once they smell the same, they can walk free. I put 5 worker in with her, and let them in the cage overnite. In the morning release, and its usually fine. I do release into a nuc though.

[MichaelW]

I had the same problem with the cell protectors being to small, so I used them when I could and didn't other times.

Does anyone think they are necessary?

Michael, did you ever come up with a good solution, or stop using them?

[Michael Bush]

>Does anyone think they are necessary?

I haven't found the cell protectors necessary.

I have been trying to use the hair curler cages to see if I can implement "accelerated queen rearing" to make better use of the nucs.

>Michael, did you ever come up with a good solution, or stop using them?

The Jenter ones are very small and fit over the cell cups. I bought the Nicot hair curler cages now. They are much larger and fit over the yellow cup holders.

[Bob Russell]

If you really need a cell protector.Thin wall irrigation tube is excellent and the other is electrical cable sleeving.The sleeving usually comes flat and returns to cylindrical shape when immersed in hot water.I prefer the irrigation tubing as it prevents damage to the cell during handling and insertion.If the nicot emerging/introduction cell protector (hair curler type)fits your cell cup the above will also.

[Michael Bush]

I've also used aluminum foil for a cell protector. It seems to work, but then no protector also seems to work. smile.gif