View Full Version : How do I do it?????????????
07-23-2003, 07:33 AM
This is a very big topic, But how do I rear queens? If it would help I hope to rear New world Carniolans http://www.beesource.com/ubb/biggrin.gif thanks alot
07-23-2003, 10:39 AM
Id start by reading several books on the subject. There are many variations of methods. Then pick one method and try to follow it closely. I'm using a Jenter system so I don't have to graft, but the hard step, for me, has been getting them to start the cells. You really have to do some manipulation to get the bees to want to raise a lot of queen cells and to do a good job of it. You need to follow the instructions on how to do the cell starter carefuly. I'm going to try again this week. Good luck.
07-23-2003, 10:48 AM
Here's a method of getting larvae that doesn't require buying a system like Jenter and doesn't require learning to graft or buying cell cups etc. But you still have to figure out how to get them to start the cells:
Here are some sites with methods for Queen Rearing:
http://www.gobeekeeping.com/Appliedqueenrearing.htm http://outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/queens.htm http://hermes.spaceports.com/~mdabees/queen.html http://members.aol.com/queenb95/queenrear.html#anchor959974 http://www.apis.demon.co.uk/beekeeping/newsletters/Spring-1998.html#Queen-rearing http://www.ohioqueenbreeders.com/queen_rearing.htm
Here is an online queen calendar: http://queencalendar.markfarm.com/Default.aspx
07-23-2003, 09:29 PM
In my opinion it is too late raising queen for this year. After the solar time (June 21.) days getting shorter and the bees preparing for the fall and winter. At the beginning of August the bees raise winter bees and feeding there laves with a differed food. The result is, such bees can live much longer than the summer bees. Summer bees up to 45 days, winter bees up to 6 month. As soon as the girls starting with this process they also kill all the drones.
To raise a queen from a 3 day old lave it takes 14 day and the new queen will hatch. After another 5 to 7 days she is ready to mate but she needs up to 17 DRONS.
You must be 100% sure your colonies have not started to kill the drones.
Starting this time with queen breeding will give you approx 29-drone layer from 30.
Starting in early May will give you 99 good queens out of 100 depends on the weather.
07-24-2003, 09:51 AM
It's not when I wanted to, but my two failed attempts at getting them to build cells has me wanting to succeed at it before I get into serious queen breeding next spring. There are still lots of drones around.
07-24-2003, 03:33 PM
When is the erliest i could start rearing queens in the spring (I live in Michigan) also how can i get a queen (that I rear, hopefully)to mate with the same kind of drone like a carniolan queen to a carniolan drone http://www.beesource.com/ubb/confused.gif. also How so I make a starter colony? thanks SW_TR
07-24-2003, 06:01 PM
In Michigan we can usually start by sometime in late April and should be finishing up (mating) by early September based on weather. Both those dates are at the extreme end though.
In reality it is significantly more complicated than just a date or weather and there are pluses and minuses to any date you happen to chose. Early weather can be cruel and acceptance of grafts is much lower. Early season matings typically have a higher percentage of poor matings. August and September are pushing the poor weather envelope at the other end and the queens should be destined for a requeening project. Even at that time, you generally have no shortage of drones especially in a state like this. You need a quantity of drones but the quality is probably more important. To raise good drones there must be ample food/pollen. Unfortunately the drones for mating at the end of the year tend to be older than you would really like but I have never seen much difference in quality between queens from early spring versus late summer/early fall. If life was perfect I would want to raise them all in the middle time frame but it just doesnt happen. I wouldnt be afraid to graft at this date though.
Unless you live north of the bridge you basically are guaranteed to NOT be able to get a pure carniolan mating. Thats a broad statement that has some exceptions but with only 5 colonies you wont have any mating control in a migratory state. Besides I will take a carni/italian mix any day over either a pure carni or pure italian.
I am still raising queens in PA. Actually, I have had pretty good success the last two weeks, and hopefully the next two to come. I don't think it is too late here, and I think it is probably the best time. Right now, the drone population is really high. The more drones that mate with queens the better, and the more diverse the better. Requeening should be considered very shortly too. I want as young as I can get for requeening before our goldenrod flow starts, in early September. A queen cell started now, will take at least 12 days to emerge, 15 days +/- to lay, another two days to get accepted ect, ect. It will be almost september, then another 3 weeks before her bees emerge. So you will catch the end of the flow, but be very fresh for next year.
If you are preparing for next year, it is not too late. Another thing too, we are almost in between flows now, so grafts will get a little more attention. I grafted another 30 today, and 15 yesterday. Another thing is what acceptance will you get too. If I get half that lay, I will be happy. Dragonflies can be a problem too, so I've read, and tis the season.
One last thing, give it a try. The experience will be wonderful, and actually doing it, is far better than reading it from a book. But I suggest you have some reference to go by. If you don't have a book, search the net. I found lots of tidbits here and there that really help. Even if you get 2 queens, it is better than having none, and the knowledge gained will not be forgotten.
I say go for it!
Starter colonies must have lots of young bees. That is key. I use a cell builder now, but I have used a 5 frame nuc, packed with bees, and I mean packed. The bees must know that they are queenless. They should be well fed before, during and after the process. I used one frame with open brood, but not alot. Find one that has a small amount of brood, and honey or pollen surrounding it. That helps alot. I grafted 15 last year, and got 10 from that setup. Be sure you mark your calender too. You must know the day that they are going to emerge, because if one emerges early, the rest are history. Learned that the hard way! Also, once capped, don't touch them. I have lost quuen by handling them too much once capped too. Thats because I built an incubator, and I am nosey! You have to understand what you are trying to accomplish, or it won't work. Take your time, do it right, and learn lots. Next year you will be that much further ahead.
07-30-2003, 06:07 PM
any tip on grafting? Hook how do you get your starter to know they are queenless? could i rear queens for splits made about the last week of april? so that would mean to start rearing in th first week of april if i am right. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif
You can make a starter easily. Get a 4 frame nuc together, and force about 5 pounds of bees into it. I don't know if you really need 5 pounds to raise a few queens, but crowd it. Make sure that there is no queen in with them for 8 hours. Don't put alot of brood in with them either. After you do that, you will need cell cups. You can make them, but you will need something to hold them in the nuc. I made cell cup holders out of wood. A piece of wood, 1/4 thick, and 3/4 x 3/4 with a 3/8 hole in the center will work, but if you may want to make multiple pieces, and fashion someway to hang them in the nuc. I made a standard frame with cutouts to hold 30 of them. Then you need cell cups. You can dip your own out of wax. I use a 3/8 dowel sanded on one end , to about 1/4 inch. Dip it in cold water, then wax, then cold water. Repeat until it fits into the 3/8 hole. Then you need to graft. I use a paperclip, peened, polished, and fashioned to my hand, and carefully slide the end under the larvae, and transfer it to the cup. Make sure the larvae is only slightly larger than an egg though. Once you do that, feed the starter heavily. I use honey, and a pollen patty. Then its up to the bees to accept your work or not! If you did a good job with everything, you may get some queens. If they start building up the cell, you have a good chance. By the 3rd day, you will see the progress or not. Once capped, wait for another 6-7 days for a queen.
You can purchase cell cups, cell holders ect. And further, you can purchase a graftless system, like the jenter, or mann lake has one, as well as betterbee, ect. Dadant and kelley probably have something too. When I first started out, I used store stuff, because I figured I would have a better chance. I soon found out, that bees are fussy with anything. It depends on alot of things going right, or wrong when you do this.
As I stated before, don't go into it blind, read up on it, and and do it. It really is a neat thing, and practice, practice, practice. But don't say I'm going to.... ,do it! Get a start on practical learning this year, then next year, give it your best shot. But read and practice.
08-02-2003, 05:37 PM
for a starter can I take bees from different hives or dose it have to be the same hive. and I will hope to make splits last week of april can I rear any queens to supply those splits or is that to early.
08-02-2003, 05:49 PM
You can take bees from any colony but they need to be young bees. My son started grafing this year and he was having trouble getting big cells. The last time he did it, he shook a bunch of young bees into a nuc box and they produced giant cells.
The end of April is pretty chancy for queen rearing. It all depends on whether the weather is good and if you have an adequate drone population.
You can make a starter from any hive or hives. The biggest thing to remember though, is to make sure that the bees know that they have no queen. Just make sure they have no queen for 8 hours or so. I have gotten away with 4 hours, but don't push your luck. Many things must be right. Make sure you overcrowd them too. We want them to want to swarm. If you produce the right swarming conditions, queen rearing is much easier.
And yes, if you can overwinter your queens, you can do splits in April. If you are planning to rear queens in April, it will depend on your climate. I don't know where you are located. In PA, it is pretty hard to do, because the bees are just starting out in April. Cold weather, lack of population in the hive, and limited drones to mate with become a problem. Queen cells incubate at about 94 degrees, and if you don't have alot of bees in a nuc, it is hard to maintain that temp. I built an incubator, that takes care of THAT problem, but I can't control the drone population. I usually wait til the end of May or early June to start. By that time, bees have a chance to get established, the weather gets warmer, and there are many drones. If you are going to regress to 4.9, you will have lots of drones by that time.
08-03-2003, 06:12 AM
I checked my queens yesterday. Looks Like I'll get six. If I had remembered to shake out a bunch of bees into that box I think I would have gotten a lot more.
Basically this time I did everything in one hive. It's a strong hive on five medium boxes. I made two brood nests by putting some capped brood, open brood, honey, pollen and a division feeder in the top box along with a frame with queen cups and the frame with the jenter box. I put an excluder under this and the rest of the brood is in the bottom box with honey in between.
After a a day (to let them put their scent on everthing) I put the queen in the Jenter box. 12 hours later I checked but it wasn't layed up that well. 24 hours later it was and I let the queen out and removed the excluder portion of the box (since it was layed up). The queen is still in the top box.
At 48 hours I should have shaken the bottom brood box (a medium but it is full of brood) into the top and released the queen in the bottom and put the excluder on top of the bottom box. Between the grouchy bees and the rain I got ahead of myself and let her go in the bottom box and forget to shake them out in the top box. I put the top box on the Floor Without a Floor with the Floor in.
72 hours after confining the queen I checked but none of the eggs had hatched. 96 hours later they had and I pulled the Jenter frame and the cup frame, brushed the bees and took it in the house and did the transfer. I should have paid more attention. They had started three queen cups and I thought they were on the cells without the plugs so I was stealing some royal jelly from them and had disturbed all three of them before I realized they were opaque at the bottom, not because they weren't on a plug but because they were full of royal jelly. I probably could have tranfered them and done well, but I had already distrubed them.
I checked two days later and they had started five cups and two more on the jenter box, that I had left in.
I will put the jenter box frame in one nuc and probably get one queen out of those two.
So that makes six. Last time I got one and the time before I got none. I feel like I'm getting the hang of it. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif I think I would have gotten a lot more if it hadn't been raining and the bees grouchy and me forgetful. In other words, if I had shaken the bottom brood nest into the top one.
Yesterday (day 8) most of the cells were capped and the others look like they will be anytime, so I put the Floor back in so that if some cell hatches early they won't attack my breeder queen.
Wednesday will be day 12 and I will set up my mating nucs. I think I'm going to make four of them out of the brood frames in the cell builder. It should improve acceptance. I'm planning on using cell protectors.
08-12-2003, 01:16 PM
I set up the mating nucs and put the cells in them. I had six queen cells and so far have seen 5 queens. The sixth has not emerged yet, but the rest hadn't emerged as of yesterday morning, so maybe it will and maybe it won't. I am pleased that I'm seem to be heading in the right direction. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif
08-12-2003, 06:21 PM
Sounds good http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif
Waiting for them to emererge seems to last forever, especially your first time! Then, waiting for them to lay even seems to take longer! I just had 7 emerge from Wednesday evening to Friday morning. It was 2 different batches. I've learned to keep the amount manageable, because too many queens presents a problem as well. Stocking nucs can be difficult, especially when you start spreading yourself thin. I hate to steal bees from a good producing hive too. Its a choice we all face sooner or later in the beginning. Next year, I hope to get started a little earlier, and have the new queens generate bees for me. That way, honey production stays up, as will queen production.
Yesterday, I watched a quuen make her way out of a cell. It was pretty cool. Thats the beauty of the incubator. Managing your quuen cells is much easier if you ask me. It was cheap to build too!
Oh well, happy queen rearing. Micheal, I see you figured it out. Thats great. Now the fun really starts, because you will want more!
08-16-2003, 06:34 AM
>Waiting for them to emererge seems to last forever, especially your first time! Then, waiting for them to lay even seems to take longer! I just had 7 emerge from Wednesday evening to Friday morning.
The last one still hadn't emerged on Wednesday, so I doubt it will, but I'll check sometime soon and see.
>Stocking nucs can be difficult, especially when you start spreading yourself thin. I hate to steal bees from a good producing hive too. Its a choice we all face sooner or later in the beginning.
That's the appeal of Dee's requeening methods. Requeening with virgins and not bother to find the old queen simplifies things a lot when you are rasing queens for requeening you own hives.
08-16-2003, 04:28 PM
The very best way to requeen without much effort is actually with queen cells rather than virgins. Your success rate forcing supercedure will be much higher.
08-16-2003, 10:14 PM
So you find the old queen and kill her, or just add the queen cell?
08-17-2003, 07:40 AM
Its a Canadian method that gained great acceptance by commercial folks especially in the east. Out west they tend to run virgins in the entrance after dark. The method is to just add the cell without disturbing them.