Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

[pahvantpiper]

Has anyone used the vaporizer by Heilyser Technology Ltd. or any other commercial vaporizer? Are you please with the results?

I would like to use OA but am a little gunshy. I know two commercial beekeepers who have had bad experiences. One guy used too much or too high a concentration spraying it on and killed a couple hundred hives.

I need to treat a couple hundred hives myself, so speed is an issue. Thank you for your input.

-Rob

[Sundance]

There is a bunch of info if you use the
seach enging on here. In a nutshell it
works well.

Trickling.......

http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/oxalic/oxalic-0-nf.htm


Vaporization......

http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/oxalic/oxalic-1-nf.htm

[drobbins]

I have one of the ones from Heilyser
I've only used it a few times but it works very well
I copied it and built a couple more, here are some pics

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/oa_evaporator/

If you have access to machine tools they're pretty easy to build

Dave

[Michael Bush]

I haven't bought one, I've only used the pipe method, but I have seen one and am impressed. If I were to use a treatment it would be oxalic, and if I were doing to do that in the long run, I'd buy the vaporizer. Being able to be some distance away upwind is worth the cost and the simplicity in the long run would be nice to have.

Too much, will kill the bees, but it takes a lot too much, not just a little too much. Twice too much is not a noticable impact. Four times the regular amount will kill a noticable amount.

If you follow the directions you should do fine.

[Mike Gillmore]

I bought one last fall and have used it a few times. Following the manufacturers instructions I have seen no ill effects on the bees and it definately keeps the mites under control.
It has been a great alternate to using chemicals and it really is effective against the mites. If you were to begin now, three treatments a week apart would have the colonies in great shape for winter and spring buildup.

[pahvantpiper]

Thanx for the input. Do you guys prefer vaporizing over dribbling?

Also, my hives are on pallets with a main entrance and a few small entrances to let any water flow out no matter what angle the pallet may be on. Will I need to close all entrances while vaporizing?

-Rob

[ October 07, 2006, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: pahvantpiper ]

[Michael Bush]

>Thanx for the input. Do you guys prefer vaporizing over dribbling?

I never tried dribbling. The fact that by far the majority of the people who dribble say you can't do it more than once or you'll noticably damage the bees, and the fact that you can do oxalic three or four times with no noticable effect, has convinced me not to bother. But then I don't treat at all now. When I was regressing, I found oxalic very effective.

[Mike Gillmore]

"Will I need to close all entrances while vaporizing?"

Yes, Rob. You should close off all entrances and stuff in cloth, or tape up all openings, while the OA is vaporizing. The process is a little time consuming but I've found it is the most effective way to treat a Mite problem without using chemicals. The biggest plus for me is that I'm not contaminating the wax and stores in the brood chambers, yet the mites are kept in control. Another wonderful benefit, as far as I'm concerned, is that you can treat with very little intrusion.... and treat effectively in cold weather without opening up the hive.

You may hear from others who use the dribbling method, and they seem to have great results. I have chosen the vaporization method because you can treat multiple times as necessary throughout the year without damage to the colony. Dribbling can only be done once a year, as I understand, without significant damage to the colony.

[jean-marc]

Rob:

I tried the Heilyser evaporators. It killed mite, but I was not to thrilled about the whole experience.

I had 12 evaporators set up in blocks of 4. Each evaporator has a plug in that went to a block of 4. That was in case one of the evaporators broke I could replace it and plug it in easily. That block of 4 has alligator clips that clamp onto the battery (use a 2 d battery, they are about 2 times bigger than a regular car battery) You'll need 2 of these so you can treat about 400 hives in the day.

I worked it such that as 1 pallet was being treated the next was set up for treatment. Then just keep going and going and going. When you do the third pallet the first set of evaporators are cooling off. Once cooled they go to the fourth pallet. 2 goes to 5, 3 to 6 etc...

Keep your cables kinda short. You want the battery power to heat the glow plugs not cables. Use small guage cables ( large diameters ). They transfer the heat efficiently, again heating the glow plugs and not cables.

Forget timers, the ones I used melted. I used a generator to charge the batteries as I worked but evetually wound up using larger batteries. The noise from the generator drove me crazy.

Nobody has done an efficacy trial using the Heilyser evaporators, not even the manufacturer. Apparently , according to Medhat Nasr (Alberta provincial apiculturist) this apparatus overheats the oxalic. This renders the treatment less effective. I found it kills mites but not quite enough for my liking. Unfortunately for me and my bees my varroa levels were kinda sky high last fall and my losses were way too high last winter. Maybe the levels got too high and the irrevocable damage was done. Any treatments, even if they killed plenty of mites would not save the hives because the winter bees had been damaged.

The efficacy of oxalic acid evaporation treatments increases when hives are wrapped. Some Alberta guys treat with oxalic the same day they wrap their hives for winter.

If you do decide to use these evaporators, get a full face sheild respirator, disposable plastic coveralls and gloves. You'll want them (personal experience).

Hope this helps. I hate varroa.

Jean-Marc

[BerkeyDavid]

I bought one and used it to treat about 15 hives last year. Biggest issue is if you have open SBB that cannot be closed. WHich I did. So you have to slide a piece of plywood under those. Doesn't take that long.

I run the vaporizer off my tractor. Just run some #12 solid wire (about 30 feet works well for me) from each terminal of your battery. If you want to get fancy solder on some quick release aligator clips.

That and a watch and you are ready to go.

I can't understand how anyone could use too much. THere is a measuring cup that comes with it. Pretty fool proof.

I did use the pipe / torch method before, this one is much better. I wait until there is very little brood. Last year I did them in November.

You fill up the container on the vaporizer, slide it in the hive, stuff some rags in the entrance, look at your watch and power it up.

Pay attention to the wind direction and don't do anything stupid (like open up the top cover and stick your head in to smell it ;) )

[denny]

I recently picked one of those vaporizers by Heilyser Technology Ltd. and will be using it on 4 hives this fall. I was wondering if the bees need to come out and fly around a bit after the 15 minute lockdown after vaporization? They must be covered with vaporized oxalic powder, and was just curious as to how it affects them. They must want to come out for fresh air. Does one just pull the tape or foam off the entrance,and let them be?

[jean-marc]

That's right, just pull the tape and let them fly. What else can you do?

Jean-Marc

[Mike Gillmore]

Denny,

I have not noticed them pouring out of the hive any more then they normally would when you take off the tape or cloth. You will notice that the bees milling around on the landing board will be doing a lot more grooming then usual.

I try to treat mine very early in the morning, starting just as it begins to get light out. I can get quite a few treated before the sun rises and they become active. This assures me that all of the bees in the hive have been exposed to the vapor, and I did not miss any that were out foraging.

Be sure to keep your smoker lit and watch the direction the smoke travels... and stay upwind!

[ October 10, 2006, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Mike Gillmore ]

[denny]

I try to treat mine very early in the morning, starting just as it begins to get light out. I can get quite a few treated before the sun rises and they become active. This assures me that all of the bees in the hive have been exposed to the vapor, and I did not miss any that were out foraging. Mike,...thanks, that's a very good idea! ;)

[ October 10, 2006, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: denny ]

[tecumseh]

jean marc sezs:
Keep your cables kinda short. You want the battery power to heat the glow plugs not cables.

tecumseh comments:
it is my understanding that dc power will show a considerable amp drop over a fairly short distance. so much like the lesson that edison was forced to live with, it is a good idea to keep the power source very close to where the power is used.

last year was my first year for using oxalic. I applied it using a non fuctional (thermostat gone bad) electric uncapping knife on about 60 hives. this year I have constructed a set (much like jean marc describes) of glow plug evaporators. more than a bit of this change has been encouraged by the time required for the device to cool and the need to keep the bees confined for the 10 minutes after the oxalic has been vaproized.

[MichaelW]

drobbins,
What would you take for one of them there vaporizers?

[Axtmann]

Hi drobbins

It’s up to you, but I would say be careful with your advertising on this forum. Here in Germany is a guy who builds some of the same vaporizer and sold them.
The German distributor of the original one, Klaus Nowottnick, found it out and reported it and the guy paid something in the range of 20 000 Euro fine. I’m not sure, you can build it for your own use, but as soon as you start copying and give them to somebody else they can get you. We have a saying, if a note from a lawyer comes in the house it cost lots of money, it makes no different whether you’re win or not at the end.

[Dan Williamson]

This will be my 3rd year using the vaporizer. I like and get a great mite drop with it.

However, I have my doubts regarding use with 200 hives. Keep in mind that I have only one vaporizer.

They tout the 60 second treatment yet don't give specifics.

You need to prep each hive before vaporizing. All holes and openings must be sealed. I used foam to close off the entrance around the vaporizer. I have found that it takes me about 70 secs before I switch off the toggle switch on my cord. Then it takes another minute or so for the last little remaining acid in the bottom to stop "smoking". I do this because I found if I let it evaporate all the way out with the power connected that it would get too hot.

There is time needed to cool the pan before putting OA into it. I don't want it to start cooking before I get it into the hive. I use a wet sponge (or rag) to wipe out the pan before I put the next dose in. It helps to cool the vaporizer more quickly.

I vaporized 12 hives last year and will do somewhere around 40 hives this year. We'll see what the time/ hive is.

I usually wait until January to vaporize. There is little to no brood rearing at that time and I think it has more effect.

Best of luck. Bottom line: I like it but am unsure how efficient it would be for commercial use.

[BerkeyDavid]

Axtmann that is good advice to Dave

If I remember my electric theory the bigger the wire you use the less drop there is. That is why I use 12 ga. solid copper wire. I have not noticed any problems, it has all vaporized. That is using about 30 feet.

[Ishi]

I usr #8 speaker wire 30 ft. do not know about the voltage drop but the wire stays cold.

[pahvantpiper]

Great advice from all. I think it sounds like too much time for a large number of hives. I'll probably go with Apiguard (if I can get it) or some other non-toxic treatment that's a bit faster.

Thanx,
Rob Bliss

[Michael Bush]

It's a bit cold for any thymol based products now isn't it?

[pahvantpiper]

I'll be moving them to a warmer location south of here in a month or so and will do it then.

-Rob