AFB

[deevee]

I have 4 hives diagnosed with AFB. I have killed the bees and sealed the hives to prevent robbling until the rains begin and I can burn them properly. The disease is well established and the advice of the Bee Lab is to burn everything.My question is what is everything?

I have a couple of honey supers from these hives. Should I extract the honey or will the spores forever contaminate my extracting equipment?

Is there any way to kill spores on a bee suit? Does this have to be burned also?

I have a number of supers that have been in contact with these hives. I plan to burn all the frames. Does it really work to char the superswith a torch? Will charring work on a screened bottom board? What about a plastic screened bottom board or a plastic piece for mite monitoring? (which I can't imagine will take well to fire).Does anything kill the spores besides fire?

What about the ground under the hive (screened bottom boards)? Do I need to flame weed it or till it?

I really want to do this right and not have the disease immediately return. I'd really appreciate some help.

[Christopher Petree]

My two cents:

Since AFB seems to be a problem in your apiary, I would not try to salvage anything concerned with the diseased hives and their components. In places where AFB isn't much of a problem, and a hive may breakdown with it once in a great while, you could try to salvage the hive bodies, bottom boards, outer and inner covers, and supers, but considering your situation, I would not bother. It will be cheaper in the long-term to just take the loss on this equipment.

You could try to extract the honey in those supers, but you could open Pandora’s Box. You would have to be careful to prevent robbing, and your extracting equipment might be exposed. That would be a choice based on how sealed your extracting area is, how careful you are, or how brave you might be… I wouldn’t.

You could probably clean your extracting equipment and bee suit with a Clorox solution if you are concerned. At least wash these items and get any honey that might have soaked in out.

If you just couldn’t part with the supers, burn the frames and their contents, and take a torch to the insides of the boxes. You are trying to burn away the spores, not start a fire or deeply char the wood.

I would not normally be so radical about this, but AFB seems to be well on its way to establishing itself in your apiary. Basically, what you are trying to do is take away the chances that the healthy bees would ingest the spores from the hives that are contaminated. AFB isn’t a problem until bees ingest it and it is passed to the larvae. Unfortunately, some places have a long history with AFB, and it might be something you have to live with. I don’t like using chemicals, but in your situation, when you get fresh bees and equipment, it might be worth treating them for AFB as a routine thing (saying that made me grimace). I would also isolate the hives in your apiary that don’t have a problem at this moment, if you have some place a few miles away, and not let your new bees come in contact with them until you know for sure that have not came down with AFB.

[Aspera]

Unless you have thousands of hives (and maybe even then), it would be a good ideal to test every colony with a milk test, every year. Its not expensive and it will let you assess how good your disinfection procedures are BEFORE colonies start coming down with AFB.

[gingerbee]

This may sound/be off the wall, but I'd try to immerse/soak the equipment (not comb) in very hot water and a generous application of Oxiclean. I've seen this stuff do wonders, it essentially disolves and dessicates when dry organic matter. Rinse it thoroughy after soaking.

I cleaned a super given to me last year with it and had good results, though the problem wasn't AFB. As expensive as equipment is, it may be worth a try.

[Aspera]

There is nothing outrageous about that at all. Oxiclean is more expensive but environmentally friendly alternative to bleach. They are both strong oxidants. Unfortunately, I don't know what the right mixture is for Oxiclean. For bleach, scrape everything well, then soak in a 1:10 dilution for 1 hour. Boiling lye requires no scraping. Bjorn showed me his lye boiled frames and they looked cleaner than driftwood on a sunny beach. Personally, I would just buy new.

[naturebee]

Most beeks in my area simply burn the frames and scortch with a torch interior parts of the hive to kill the spores.

[deevee]

I appreciate all the input. I only had 4 hives so at least I don't have to worry about any other colonies. I am willing to bite the bullet and burn the wooden parts of the hives. .

Oxiclean sounds like it has potential for cleaning some of the plastic pieces. I just happened to buy some the other day.

What is the milk test? After this experience I'm ready to become obsessive in AFB monitoring.

I don't relish the idea of a lifetime of needing to use meds as prevention either.

[Aspera]

This link has a good summary of available diagnostics:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA090

[Michael Bush]

> Is there any way to kill spores on a bee suit?

Just wash it.

>Does this have to be burned also?

No.

>I have a number of supers that have been in contact with these hives. I plan to burn all the frames. Does it really work to char the superswith a torch?

Yes. Stacking them up and building a fire in the middle was a more common method and then douse by putting on a telescopic cover.

> Will charring work on a screened bottom board?

Yes.

>What about a plastic screened bottom board or a plastic piece for mite monitoring? (which I can't imagine will take well to fire).

The bees don't come into contact with it. I would just use chlorix bleach on it.

>Does anything kill the spores besides fire?

Not a lot. Gamma radiation. There is a fumigant that is used to kill them, but it requires expensive equipemnt. Some states have them and some states have radiation available as well. Bleach seems to put a good dent in it as does lye.

>What about the ground under the hive (screened bottom boards)?

Bees don't crawl on the ground.

> Do I need to flame weed it or till it?

I would not.

The problem with the spores really comes down mostly to the scale in the combs. It is in high numbers there and will be in the brood nest. If you boil in lye or scorch the wood and the wax is gone, there are few spores and it has to reach critical mass to have an AFB outbreak. Detectable amounts (enough to culture P larvae) of AFB spores are found in many hives with no symptoms. How many hives have spores in undetectable amounts?

[deevee]

Thank you all so much. I feel a little less overwhelmed about the project.

I spoke with Bart at the bee lab and his comments were very much in keeping with Michael's. Thank you Michael for writing everything down so clearly. I'm getting a much better picture of how the spores are transmitted.

Bart also said it was better to monitor and not to just medicate with antibiotics as a preventative.

[gingerbee]

Now I'm not sure if the equipment I just bought is even worth anything. The insides of several hives are scorched, as are some frames. I've cleaned it thoroughly. The fellow who sold it to me did not mention AFB. I was thinking wax moths. The equipment had been sitting in his barn in plastic bags I think, for a long time.

[gingerbee]

Will bleach, or lye kill it?

Followup note: Just found out that the hives/ equipment did not have AFB!!

[ September 28, 2006, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Gingerbee ]

[Michael Bush]

Some people scorch the hives when, like you, they get them used and are trying to be safe.

[Christopher Petree]

North Carolina is fortunate enough to have a fumigation chamber that the state operates for a nominal fee. This is the easiest route...if you have that option open to you. I'm not sure how many states have this piece of equipment. It would be worth looking into though.

[kensfarm]

DeeVee.. sorry about your hives.. I wanted to ask a few questions.

Could you smell any odor outside the hives?

Hives located in full sun or shade?

Hives located on stands.. or on the ground?

Did the undersides of the telescoping covers show signs of mold?

[deevee]

No odor outside the hives, and very little odor inside the hives. There was a faint but distinct smell but nothing like I expected according to many descriptions. When I cut the frame to send in a sample to the bee lab, the smell was a bit more pronounced but not really "foul".
Probably the part of the standard description I could relate to was that the smell llingered a bit in the nostrils when leaving the hive. If it weren't for the brood pattern I wouldn't have thought anything of it. The capping were not dark and the perforations minimal. I wouldn't even call them really looking sunken. Now that I've seen and smelt it, I will recognize it forever.

I showed a frame to a group of beekeepers with a total of many years of beekeeping experience and no one could say for sure that it was AFB. It definitively was not as obvious as I assumed.

I considered foulbrood when I saw the spotty brood pattern and imagined there was a faint odor. I poked open some capped cells to find brown liquid larva (at first without ropiness).

Hives were in a fairly sunny space but with shade coming in towards the late afternoon. They were located on cinderblocks.
No signs of mold on the telesoping cover and 2 hives with regular covers. Do these things have a bearing on AFB?

[kensfarm]

I'm just learning.. new beek since May.. I was worried about a "smell" coming from one hive.. but found a thread talking about the smell of Golden Rod.. similiar to gym socks.

[Michael Bush]

Usually a case of AFB that is hard to diagnose isn't really AFB. It could be Parafoulbrood, which greatly resembles it. Did you send a sample to Beltsville?

Here's a breif description of parafoulbrood:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#pfb

Try a search you'll find a lot of people misdiagnose it as either EFB or AFB.

[deevee]

Yes, I did send it to Beltsville. They confirmed AFB. This service is invaluable. If I ever see anything suspicious I'll be sure to send a sample to them right away.

I hadn't heard of parafoulbrood but will check out the link. Thanks.

[Michael Bush]

>Yes, I did send it to Beltsville.

Good.

>They confirmed AFB.

Then it's official.