Certan? Wow!

[Grant]

On 8/30 I found a hive infested with wax moths. Bees were gone, comb was robbed out and dry, and wax moths and larvae present. About half of the frames were chewed up and full of wax worms.

Having ordered Certan (Xen Teri) from Sundance (look in the For Sale forum) I removed the frames, picked off most of the webbing and a majority of the cocoons, laid the frames out on the driveway, and sprayed the frames with Xen Teri. Then I flipped them over and sprayed the other side.

The frames all went back in the brood box, and I assembled the hive as it was before.

One week later, there is no sign of wax worms. There are a few adult moths still flying around, but so far, I'm really impressed. There is no further damage to the other combs.

Today, I found a couple of other hives infested, so I did the same treatment. But holy cow, after spending a week in the sprayer, this stuff stinks. It smells a little like Bee-Go.

So I sprayed the frames anyway, then stacked the supers with an alternating pattern (criss-cross) to air dry.

I'll keep you posted as to what I observe.

Grant
Jackson, MO

[Grant]

I sprayed more frames today. I mixed 4 tablespoons of Xen Teri per gallon in a hand sprayer. I laid out the frames on the driveway, sprayed them until they "glistened" and looked "sweaty." Then flipped them over and did it again.

Yesterday's frames, left to air-dry in the super, are looking good. The smell of the week-old Xen Teri has left the supers and they seem ready to go.

I also found two adult small hive beetles this morning. I plan to stack the supers with a Hood SHB trap, but I also wonder if the Xen Teri will also work on that larvae.

Just for your information, I sprayed fourteen supers with one gallon of mix.

Grant
Jackson, MO

[Sundance]

*************NOTE**************************

The insert on the package of XenTari reads
3 TEASPOONS per gallon. Not tablespoons.

The Max rate is 4 TEASPOONS per gallon. I am
using this rate myself.

4 tablespoons is mighty potent. Sure it
does not matter other than using more
than is needed.

[ September 09, 2006, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Sundance ]

[Craig W.]

If the small hive beetle is a chewing larvae, certan may work. If it does not work Dipel will. Dipel is a Bt. strain that kills more eating worms then certan and is much cheaper, it also kills wax moth larvae. You can buy Dipel at the feed store. I was amazed what everyone paid for this certan, when Dipel is available and actually a better product and much cheaper.

[Michael Bush]

This strain is more targeted to wax moths. I don't know how Dipel would work on wax moths, but I'd love to hear any fist hand knowledge of this, or even a good reference. I'm very curious if it would affect SHB, but I have my doubts since they are beetles as apposed to moths.

[drobbins]

I'm curious if this stuff would work on SHB
It's for a different beetle pest

http://www.biconet.com/biocontrol/bpopillae.html

I haven't been bothered by em yet so I can't test it
Actually, I sprinkled it on the ground around my hives, maybe that's why I haven't been bothered smile.gif

I am NOT suggesting I know it works :(

Dave

[Michael Bush]

Since it kills beetles it's much more likely to work than the Bt, in theory.

[Jim Young]

The biology of the SHB indicates that the beetle larvae feed on components of the comb within the hive and leave the hive to pupate in the soil without further feeding. Thus, I suspect milky spore applied to the soil around hives is not effective in controlling the pupating small hive beetle. Perhaps, a beekeeper with SHB can test the effectiveness of treating hives with milky spores or incorporating milky spores in brood builder. There is also a possibility of honeybee larvae ingesting milky spores succumbing to such treatments.

[drobbins]

I wonder about actually applying it to the combs like you do with Certan
The MSDS seems to indicate you could get away with this

http://www.biconet.com/biocontrol/infosheets/MilkySporeMSDS.pdf#search=%22milky%20spore%20msds% 22

of course the FDA would have a conniption
just thinking out loud smile.gif

Dave

[Michael Bush]

That would be one thing we would need to know. How does it affect bee larvae?

[drobbins]

sounds like an experiment is in order
I would think 1 frame treated with milky spore and inserted in an observation hive would tell if it hurts bee larve
I have some milky spore, it's on my list but not till spring

Dave

[edit] another question along these lines
I just ordered 2 boxes of honey supercell
does HSC and Permacomb (pre-drawn plastic combs) just make SHB and wax moth a non-issue??

[ September 10, 2006, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]

[Grant]

Sundance,

Thanks for the clarification on September 9 regarding using teaspoons, not tablespoons when mixing Xen Teri. I appreciate the correction.

However, I used your directions back in the "For Sale" forum, the "Bt Aizawai Powder" thread. On August 28th, 10:29 pm your post read that you used 4 tablespoons per gallon. I even printed that section off and keep it with my package of Xen Teri.

I thought, "Gosh, why read directions when...

Oh well. I stand corrected and will back off to 4 teaspoons. Again, my thanks for all your work in making this available.

Grant
Jackson, MO

[Sundance]

I screwed up Grant... I misread it myself.
I corrected the directions after reviewing
the insert. The stronger dose will have no
adverse effect from my understanding other
than economic.

[dragonfly]

I have used Bt in the garden for years as an organic pesticide for tentworms and other "caterpillar" type pests. I wasn't under the impression that it would work on beetle larvae, but rather on larvae of moths and butterfly-type insects. Maybe I'm misinformed.??