Questions Regarding American Foulbrood

[tosk]

Hi,

I'm new here and have been a beekeeper for the last 15 years. During that time I have never had a case of foulbrood. I have two hives. One hive I have had nosema over the winter and now has American foulbrood. I noticed some weeks ago the queen's laying pattern was not good. I thought she was stressed and would be superceded. I now think the bad laying pattern was actually dead capped brood but too early to have developed the typical AFB look. I should have followed up by checking again after a few days as it was contained on one frame. Now I have five frames of dead, ropey, stinking capped brood.

I changed my suit, gloves and hive tool and looked at my other hive and it appears fine.

I've spent a number of hours reading about AFB on the internet but still have a number of questions. I assume the best way to deal with this is to kill the bees and burn the hive, however, have you ever heard of the following:

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2003/hansen_1.pdf

and

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2003/von_der_Ohe_1.pdf

I take it the key is to keep the bees isolated and in a swarm condition for a period of two days as this allows all the honey in their gut to be used. I found other sources in Australia that did not have much success with a similar method. They just shook the bees onto fresh foundation and immediately treated with Terramycin. I think the two days of starvation is critical.

Questions:

1) Do you think this so called "shaking" method is worth trying? Is so, how in the world do you get them in a screen box? I guess it would have to be done at night, but how?

2) Assuming you think it best to kill the bees, how do I do that? I see Resmethrin is recommended - where can this be obtained? Most sources advise burning only the frames and combs. The hive bodies, bottom board and top cover can be salvaged by scorching them. The wrong chemical used to kill the bees would make reuse impossible.

3) I had a super on this hive. No nectar was placed in it but there were bees roaming and sleeping up there. What should I do with it? Do I treat it like a brood chamber body and destroy the frames?

4) I can clean my bee suit by washing and my metal tools by heating, how do I clean my leather gloves?

Live and learn - this was preventable - it just never occurred to me that this was anything other than a failing queen. Even so, I still feel really bad about it.

Thanks - Tom

[clintonbemrose]

The way I have worked with AFB was to make a pit and move the complete hive into the pit and burn it at night.(bees and all). Also include the gloves and suit with the hive. After all is burned cover the hole with the loose dirt. Your tools can be sterilized with open flame and heat. Many states require it done this way. I have done this to atleast 9 hives and did this to keep AFB from spreading to my other hives.
These hives were my living and before I retired I ran 500 hives.
I still have 9.
Clint

[dickm]

I had it a couple of years ago. I burned the frames and saved the boxes after scorching them. In light of the fact that researchers found at least some spores in 75% of the hives they sampled at the almond pollination circus, being paranoid about a few spores may be overkill. I wouldn't play with the bees. If you are going to invest in new equipment, why put the old bees on it? They aren't that valuable. I'd say wash the suit, flame the tools and boxes, and scrub the gloves with a little clorox.

About the supers. I had some plastic foundation in a couple of supers that were never worked. I saved them and marked them, and used them. In the 2 years since, I have had no other outbreaks.

Suggest the weakness of the hive contributed to Nosema and AFB. Try some other bees too. Some are more resistant because they clean the infection out while it is still not in the spore state. If weak they can't stay ahead of it. Read Marla Spivak.

Dickm

[jalal]

http://www.honeybeegenetics.com/

[Joel]

Cliff Van Eaton did a similar study in New Zealand where no antibiotics are permitted. The study is a rather long read and may be difficult to find still on line. The following conclusions were reached. (Keep in mind this is a few lines from a 75-100 page study) 1. There was no evidence of lids, Contaminated boxes or bottom boards contributing to the spread of AFB. (as long as no comb containing contaminated honey existed on them). 2) The major source for contamination is scale from infected brood frames and infected Honey. 3) Control was gained by shaking bees on to foundation and destroying infected equipment (frames only). If I recall about 70% of the hives were clean after the change. I am aware of someone who has used this method very successfully. He medicates when he does the shakedown. Having said that, most states have laws relating to the control and spread of infectious disease in livestock that may supercede this process. IMO genetics contribute to the problem and if I were to use this method I would requeen. If your going to do it take the time to locate the study and read the whole work. Scrubbing gloves and tools with bleach will not resolve your issue. Straight bleach, due to surface tension, will surround virus, bacteria and such and not actually kill them. When bleach is used for disinfecting it should be diluted with water between 10/1(water/bleach) and 40 to 1. Since you are only trying to remove spores all that is really neaded with gloves is to wash them well with soap and water to remove the spores. Your hive tool should be sterilized in your smoker and your suit washed as normal. It really takes quite allot of spores to infect a hive and contamination from you suit or gloves is not likely going to infect hives. The real secret to control is keeping your hives strong, destroying old comb, not feeding honey back to bees and police your weak hives and especially your deadouts. Also know who is near you, A friend and I dedicate time to working with novice beekeeepers in our area to help them keep their hives healthy( protecting us also) and eliminating diseased hives. We've cleaned out 1 yard of 40 infected hives 2 years ago. The contanmination we have found has come exclusively from used equipment bought from a "reputable beekeeper. In 1 case the state bee inspector inspected 2 hives that were purchased and ignored the 8 deadouts sitting in the same yard an individual purchased. She spread the equipment over 12 hives the following year and we had quite the burning at her house a couple of weeks ago. Whenever we deal with AFB we have to remember that prior to the use of Sulpha drugs the nations bee population collapsed due to infection, it is serious business and requires serious consideration.

[Robert Brenchley]

Be very careful about supers and super frames; one of the main ways in which AFB is spread is through beekeepers moving them between colonies. The biggest outbreak ever recorded in the UK (a couple of years ago) involved over 100 hives, all belonging to the same person. Draw your own conclusions!

[Jim Fischer]

> one of the main ways in which AFB is spread is
> through beekeepers

Fair warning Robert... I tried to point that out
a while ago, and a bunch of folks started yapping
at me and nipping at my heels, claiming that AFB
spores are "everywhere" and such.

Apparently, any theory is preferable to one that
"blames the beekeeper".

[ikeepbees]

While Dr. Fischer points things out, others yap. Condescending? Insulting?

Actually, the "yappers" did not disagree that AFB could be spread by moving infected frames from colony to colony in that discussion. They did, however, take issue with Dr. Fischer's stance that AFB cannot be spread by foraging or robbing bees from hive to hive.

[Jim Fischer]

What's the problem, Rob?

I certainly yap, kvetch, and poke fun.

I notice from your tag line that you
apparently lost your sense of humor
perhaps in an unusual accident involving
a hot uncapping knife, a 1957 Ford Tractor,
and a bailing machine.

And "cannot" was a merely an evaluation
of the existing data. The cases simply don't
spread much.

And "Dr. Fischer"?
Please, call me Jim. Everyone else does.

[ikeepbees]

No problem, Jim, at least that I am aware of. smile.gif

I think I still have my sense of humor, as I find my tagline rather humorous. Ah ha! There is my problem!

And the only tractor my family ever owned was a John Deere model 60. Good machine.

Not much is distinctly different from cannot. That is why the "yappers" were yapping. The question that was left unanswered in that long ago thread was how can an adult bee transmit AFB spores (or is cells the correct word? Not sure.) to a larva if an adult robber cannot transmit spores (cells?) from the robbed hive to the home hive?

Again, I ask this question seriously; not to prove that beekeepers can't or don't spread AFB. I realize that moving infected frames can and will spread AFB.

[Dick Allen]

>I notice from your tag line that you
apparently lost your sense of humor
perhaps in an unusual accident involving
a hot uncapping knife, a 1957 Ford Tractor,
and a bailing machine.

Dr. Fischer (Jim) Who has lost their sense of humor? tongue.gif

[Robert Brenchley]

It has to be possible for AFB to be propagated by other means than swopping frames about, since it clearly existed before moveable frames! At the same time, it only seems to have become a significant problem in the era of the 'modern' hive, so it's really incumbent on every beekeeper to ensure that they don't become a means of spreading the disease.

[tosk]

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to answer my questions. The answers provided were both enlightening and helpful. After agonizing for three days, I decided to destroy the hive and burn it. The reason I found the decision hard was that this was still a strong hive and certainly a candidate for the "shaking" method.

I took into consideration that it was already late June and the fact that they were sick coming out of the winter with dysentery (I know I said Nosema in my original email, but the poop was mainly inside the hive). I also thought about how best to keep AFB from spreading to my other hive.

I was planning to disinfect with straight bleach - if a little is good, a lot must be better, right? Joel, I appreciate your correction.

I hope I never have to do this again.

Thanks again -- Tom

[Robert Hawkins]

Tom, our hearts are with you. I can only imagine what it feels like. I would probably try to look past it to my next split or something.

Good Luck.

Hawk

[Bryn]

There may be other ways to salvage the situation. The shaking method seems a lot simpler when you use a bee-vac. And equipment can be saved if you use an autoclave to heat beyond AFB temp.

Dana Stahlman ( gobeekeeping (http://www.gobeekeeping.com) ) wrote in the April 2005 issue of BeeCulture about a portable Autoclave that the state of West Virginia had for its beekeepers. An alternative maybe to contact a lab and see how big their autoclaves are.

Edit: You may be able to experiment with a drying kiln. Maybe someone in the pottery business would be willing to let you experiment.

[jalal]

Wow.

[Jack Grimshaw]

Burning your first hive is a tough decision.
Been there!
I feel w/AFB,you have no choice!
Make sure to quarantine any hives you may have visited after inspecting this hive.The spores are there long before symptoms are obvious.