Api-life-var?

[Martha]

I haven't seen any mention of this product in dealing with varroa.

I understand it can be used when the supers are on and doesn't contaminate the honey.

I lost my hives last year and I sure don't want to this year. My new bees are on last year's transistion to 4.9 size comb with some new 4.9 foundation, starter strips and some leftover foundationless (bee built) from last year too.

Have any of you used it? It sounds alot easier to use than sucocide.

Thanks,
Martha

[Rob-bee]

I am going to try it this fall and see what happens here the link
http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=789

[Rob-bee]

Api-Life Var™ , a miticide against varroa mites, has an "Emergency Use" registration (Section 18) in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Maryland. This product is an essential oil miticide that is manufactured in Italy and has been used in Europe for several years. Brushy Mountain Bee Farm, (800) 233-7929, is the sole vendor of the product in the US. Tests in several southern states have shown it to be effective against Varroa mites. Api-Life Var™ product consists of wafers of vermiculite (a substance used in floral arrangements) impregnated with the naturally occurring oils: thymol, eucalyptol, camphor, and menthol. To avoid skin irritation waterproof gloves must be worn when handling Api-Life Var™. To prevent bee mortality while ensuring effective mite kill label directions should be followed precisely; specifically, treatment should occur when average daily temperatures are between 59 and 69°F (15 to 20.5°C) and should not occur when temperatures are above 90°F (32°C). This miticide can only be used in late summer or fall, as there is a 30 day period between the end of treatment and supering colonies for honey production. Found this too hope it helps

[Bob Harrison]

Martha,
I have used Api Life var for three years in Missouri with success. Several other bee supply houses will sell/ship Api Life Var to those states with approved section 18. More than the above three states are approved for 2005. At least ten I believe.

[Martha]

Thanks guys.

I guess I wait until fall.

Martha

[Michael Bush]

I haven't tried it, but the main active ingredient that is known to be efffective on Varroa mites seems to be the thymol and thymol crystals are a lot cheaper than the Api-life. If you search on "thymol crystals" there have been discussions on how to put them in trays to get the same effect.

[beegee]

The problem I see with Api-Life-var is that you have to treat 3 times for each hive. This is OK if you only have a few hives, but is rather labor-intensive for a commercial beekeeper. Other than that, it seems to be a good product. I may even try some eventually.

[Robert Brenchley]

Apiguard is also thymol, and only needs two treatments.

[MichaelW]

An old study I found has you doing only 2 treatments for Api-Life. The two treatments last four weeks. Seems like to me 4 weeks is long enough to kill emerging Varroa. It also has you not breaking up the tablet into multipule squares but instead putting the whole thing above a screen to keep the bees from chewing it. I noticed it is sold in packages of 2 right? so wouldn't the packageing suggest thats the way it was meant to be used? I haven't seen the specific directions that come with it yet.

I just ordered some, after looking at all the MANY Varroa options. I decided on the Apilife for reasons of safety, easy, well studied, used for a long time in Europe.

Also, I was looking at sources for Thymol crystals and there seems to be lots of different kinds, I think one had Iodine in it. Is there a certain kind that should be used?

[MichaelW]

on the thymol crystals,

A study, "field trials with different thymol-based products..."

http://www.apicoltura.org/file_pdf/field_trials.pdf

showed that with the one product, Thymovar
had a side affect in some colonies that showed
"a single administration was sufficient to create severe distress(colony weakening and high brood removal)" ........"The side effects of Thymovar on the bees could be explained by a fast and intense release of most of the thymol."

So just using thymol crystals may have detrimental effects if they offgas too quickly.

[Bob Harrison]

MichaelW is correct. The first year the instructions were for only two treatments. I did two and got a good control.

I am a commercial beekeeper and did not have a problem with 2 (or even 3) treatments as I pumped a gallon of feed with fumidil B on the same trip.

The number of hives I run which need treatment get smaller each year. I do have some yards of Italians which are not varroa tolerant and need treatment. Most likely I will use ApiLife Var on those and also on some Australian hives I have got.

[Joseph Clemens]

With the temperature limitations on application I don't think I could ever use it here.

[Bob Harrison]

You could be right. We have had a small amount of dead brood when temps go higher than 90F.

[MichaelW]

I recieved my package today. The smell was quickly noticable through the house, and made my eyes alittle watery, when I merely opened the cardboard box and got the instructions out. It definately needs to be stored outside, I choose under my house. I put it in a metal box to protect from mice, hope its not reactive. I'm glad to not be using a neurotoxin this year, but these organic acids are prety potent chemicals, even though its edible in small concentrations.

Bob,

do you know why they went from recomending 2 treatments to 3. I have enough to do all my hives with 2 treatments, but not three. I would rather try some powdered sugar than buy another package. I'll probably do three treatments even though I can't seem to find the information they are going by to recomend three treatments. But I'll play it safe. I think if they want general beekeeper coopoeration there needs to be a little more free flow of information. Surely the recomendations are based on something.

[Bob Harrison]

I got good control the first year with 2 treatments.
You can always use less of a product and comply with the label. Never more and be legal!
Do two treatments as per label and then test varroa load.
Varroa control is about knocking back varroa load. nothing more. Once you have got varroa you have always got varroa.
I had a test group of hives (100) which were advertised to be varroa tolerant from California. I installed in April 2004 and left untreated the first year. I trusted the queen producer and did not even test for varroa in fall. They looked great coming out of a Missouri winter (2004/2005 with 2% loss).
Only by chance I decided to check varroa load and was amazed to find high varroa loads. Some were dropping 100-140 varroa natural fall in 24 hours.
I had enough ApiLife var on hand for one treatment which I gave. The section 18 for Missouri was not yet approved for 2005 so I could not get more Api life var until about time for a second treatment. The single treatment (March) knocked the varroa back enough for me to super in early summer and get a honey crop. I pulled the supers the 9th of July (except one super each ) and am getting ready when the heat breaks to test, pull the last super, and treat if necessary. Although those hives have little if any varroa tolerance I at least got a honey crop ( one deep and two 6 5/8 average). I may treat once or twice with apilife var and install some real varroa tolerant queens in September.
Api life var stinks (as does formic and OA). I keep the MT wrappers in the truck side box. I had an employeee start to get sick the first year from the smell of open wrappers in the cab.
Not a problem when sealed in my opinion.
Good luck and try to treat when temps are below 90F. Our one time with a exxtended three day period of 92-93 F. caused dead brood to be tossed from the entrance but not enough to cause a big concern on my part. Outside now the temp is 102F. I would expect a large amount of dead brood if treatment was done at such a high unrecommended treatment temp.

[MichaelW]

FYI

http://www.apis.admin.ch/en/bienenprodukte/docs/rueckstaende/apilifeVAR_e.pdf

"In order to keep the thymol residue level at a minimum, we rocmmend, that combs, used during VAR treatment, should not be not used as honey combs in the following year and that brood combs with feed should not be present during honey flow."

"not be not used"? typo?
anyway, there seems to be residue in the comb after thymol treatment. It does not build with additional treatments as Cumophos does. And declines rapidly when Apilife treatments stop. When used correctly it dosen't surpass taste thresholds.

[Bob Harrison]

I think the advice would apply to most treatments in use today. Once comb is treated then use only as brood nest comb. Always make sure feed is not present when honey flow is on as WILL be moved up by the bees. Why take a chance!

Also with a mass spec machine any treatment you use is detectable! Also if you live around city contamination such contamination will be detected. Tests in Montana show shocking results of wax contamination from the environment!

[MichaelW]

thanks,
I definately need to get my sticky boards/ bottom boards put together so I can see whats going on out there. Part of our problem is treating for things we don't know we have.

Good point on environmental contamination. Our world is constantly homogenizing and diffusing where we ingest all the pollutants. I once extracted some honey strait from the local recycling center, my bees were dumpster diving! :eek:

I guess with the treatments the main thing is to use someting that isn't known to cause harm to humans in small concentrations as neurotoxins likely do.

[ikeepbees]

Can anyone tell me whether or not you need to use a rim, shim, or super to provide room for the Api-life Var? Or is it slim enough to fit between the top bars and the top?

[MichaelW]

Looks like to me its skinny enough, good question. fliping the inner cover would be one way to do it. That would allow for more of it to be exposed. Also, they are suggesting makeing a screened envelope or otherwise seperating it from the bees so they can't chew it up. They also suggest closeing off screened bottom boards So I think I may need to reduce my extra jarge vent on the inner cover.

[Bob Harrison]

You don't need to use a special screen. Cut or break the tab INTO FOUR PARTS AND PLACE ON FOUR CORNERS OF THE TOP BOX.
The bees will try and remove or propolis over. pick up with hive tool and place in bucket whats left on your next trip.
install next treatment.
Timing and temp important.

[ikeepbees]

Bob,

Can you answer my question? Is there room between the top bars and the top for this product, or do you need a shim, rim, or super? (I don't use inner covers).

[Bob Harrison]

There is room but part of the thymol might stick to your lid. Simply scrape off with your hive tool when you get ready for the next treatment.
The tabs are about a quarter inch thick.

[Martha]

Bob,
How long do you leave the pieces in the hive?

BTW, isn't the rain nice?

Martha

[ikeepbees]

Thanks Bob!

[peggjam]

Bob:

Why is the number of hives that need treatment declining? What are you doing to control the mites if you are not treating for them? Thanks.

peggjam

[Bob Harrison]

All my hives but a small number of Italian hives are now varroa tolerant. The Italians ( 2004 queens) will either be rqueened this fall or in spring with varroa tolerant queens . They are the only hives which will need treatment.
If I run across a hive with a high infestation of varroa in the varroa tolerant hives I simply depopulate like a laying worker hive and take the equipment or install a varroa tolerant queen from stock (depending on time of year and level of infestation).
I am through with the killing off fifty percent of the varroa test hives with added varroa pressure and searching for the varroa tolerant bee. Wax has been replaced from past use of strips.
Back to normal beekeeping now. Just in time as I have lost a three year emplyee and another part time helper (building his house & own honey house).
Now is my busy time and need to start serious focus on getting things done. Not a lot of time for the internet. I will be doing less posts now and shorter.
Weather has now broke. Temps in upper fifties right now.

[MichaelW]

upper fifties! our weather is supposed to break tommorow to lower eighties for the next week. Will do on the breaking 4 pieces, thanks.

[Bob Harrison]

Martha,
7-10 days.

The rain was nice but we are still in drought conditions in my area. We got around a quarter inch.

Brought some red clover back but not the White Dutch or sweet clovers to any degree.

Looked like a bumper crop but now the bees are pulling honey from supers down into the brood nest. Last supers I pulled were ovaled out in the center of the bottom super.

Hope to see you at the picnic!

[MichaelW]

So far Apilife killing lots of mites. Put my second treatment on today. One hive had bad PMS when I started. I pulled all the capped brood before I treated and started feeding. They are taking the feed like crazy and didn't see any signs of PMS today. I did see them chewing out some dead capped bees. I gave all the capped brood to a NUC and I found lots of dead mites there. Would be really excited if these two hives make it to next honey season. I'll post mite count results when all is said and done.

What is the typical outcome of treating PMS hives? Do they usually die before winter or in spring anyway? I've heard its hard to turn one around.

[JWG]

Regarding Api Life treatments: Anyone in the northern states using Api-Life VAR would have to forfeit any fall honey crop. Right?
Or are some folks working around the conflict between treatment and getting a fall crop in the supers?

Like many, I would like to be able to use this treatment but am not sure, given the temperatures required and the time of year.

Thanks.

[JWG]

By the way, using the top-spray with Sucrocide in 20 of our colonies, this is the first year I have not seen any PMS by now. So it looks very promising.

[VABeeKEEPER]

Has anyone developing their own Api-Life-Var formula (using natural ingredients) and had success using on there hives?

[Michael Bush]

Lots of people use Thymol crystals in a tray which is the same basic effect. You just have to make the tray so the bees can't carry out the crystals (#8 hardware cloth lid).

[MichaelW]

The rate of evaporation would be important too. If it off gasses to quickly it can kill brood. Thats the reason you don't use apilife when temps reach over 90 degrees. They make it in a vermiculate carrier that (I think) slows down its evaporation. Other brands of Thymol treatments offgass quicker. The methods I've read about using the crystals are in europe. Temps. are much different in the southeast. I would only try it when the temps are cool but above the miniumum temp. to use Apilife. Hives should strongly stink with thymol throught the treatment period. Smells good though.

[MichaelW]

Here are my 24 hr drop mite counts before and after using Apilife - VAR. I used 3 treatments as directed.

Hive...........Before........After
Hive#1............43...........1
Hive #2..........103...........9
Hive #3............8...........7
Hive #4..........107...........4
Hive #5...........NA...........1
Hive #6...........NA...........1

first count was Aug 25, 2005
treatment period was 8/26/05 - 9/22/05
final mite count was done 10/11/05

I treated hive #3 even with the low count because it had no brood when doing the counts and the two hives beside it were very high in mite counts. It droped lots of mites during the treatment period.

Hive #2 Had many bees with deformed wings and "off-color" bees before I treated. Haven't noticed this since.

Hive 5&6 where new splits. Decided to treat them anyway since so many mites where in the other hives. On hive 5 I should have held off to see if they needed a treatment later on.
On hive #6 I put 4 frames of capped brood from hive #2 to break some of the brood cycle because it was having trouble with the mites. So the new split #6 needed treatment.

[ October 11, 2005, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]