Small Cell Foundation in Medium Size Only?

[Oyster]

I've checked both Dadant and Brushy Mountain, and they only sell small cell foundation in the medium size only. Why is that?

If I want to convert my deep brood boxes to small cell, what are my options?

Why do the instructions say that small cell foundations should only be used by experienced beekeepers?

The instructions also say to install 10 frames of small cell foundation per brood chamber in the Spring or right after swarming. Why can't a frame or two of small cell foundation be introduced over the course of time, so that after a couple of months or so, the entire brood chamber would be replaced by small cell foundation?

[Lesli St. Clair]

It's for deeps, not mediums. It's called "medium brood" because of the thickness, not the size.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>The instructions also say to install 10 frames of small cell foundation per brood chamber in the Spring or right after swarming.

Because bees draw the best and fastest in the spring when the flow is on and swarms draw even faster. The best time to have bees draw comg is when you have young bees in a strong nectar flow.

>Why do the instructions say that small cell foundations should only be used by experienced beekeepers?

An unexperianced beekeeper would be more likely to try to use it with LC bees not understanding the regression process. Then the company gets into problems with an unhappy customer getting poorly drawn frames and the whole thing snowballs into bad relations.

[Michael Bush]

As Leslie says, "medium brood" means that the thickness is "medium" and the cell layout is for worker brood. It only comes in deep. I cut them in half to do mediums and leave the gap at the bottom.

You can introduce the small cell over time and just try to get the smallest comb in the center. Cull, or move to the outside or somwhere else, the ones that get drawn over 4.9mm.

Just don't count on mite control until you get the center of the brood nest all below 4.9mm.

[Oyster]

Michael, Bullseye Bill and Lesli,

Thanks for the education.

Bullseye Bill: As a house bee, I am not familiar with the term LC bee. Please educate me.

Michael: Regarding your comment "I cut them in half to do mediums and leave the gap at the bottom." What are you referring to as 'the gap at the bottom'?

Lesli: You responded to my other post regarding the green plastic drone frame with foundation. Did you find it useful, and would you recommend others to buy it?

Thanks,

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>I am not familiar with the term LC bee. Please educate me.

Oh, sorry, redface.gif
LC = large cell
SC = small cell

We use a lot of anachromins here and sometimes take it for granted that everyone knows what they mean.

I tried to do a search for you. Last year we had a thread that listed all the abreviations, but I couldn't find it :(

Not trying to step on MB's toes, but deep foundation when cut in half lengthways and inserted into a medium frame leaves about a 1 1/2 inch gap at the bottom of the frame.

[Michael Bush]

>Not trying to step on MB's toes, but deep foundation when cut in half lengthways and inserted into a medium frame leaves about a 1 1/2 inch gap at the bottom of the frame.

>Michael: Regarding your comment "I cut them in half to do mediums and leave the gap at the bottom." What are you referring to as 'the gap at the bottom'?

I just measured one and the gap is exactly 1 3/16". Deep foundation is 8 1/2". Medium is 5 5/8". Half of a deep foundation is 4 1/4". And 1/8" of the 5 5/8" foundation was to protrude into the divided or grooved bottom bar. So it ends up with a little over an inch gap.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Foundation49.jpg

[LEAD PIPE]

Michael,

I have read that you are controlling mites by allowing bees to build a smaller size cell, closer to bees in the wild. What I don't understand is if this smaller size protects or controls mites why did the wild honey bees get hit so hard by the mites?
Thanks

[George Fergusson]

I'm liking the sound of small-cell foundation but like many new beekeepers, I'd already made a significant investment in large-cell "technology" before learning that there may be a better way. I note after some cursory online research, that this cell-size controversy dates back at least 10 years with references to research on the subject going back to the early 1980's. Debate has at times been heated.. and meanwhile, Varroa infestations have continued to worsen.

I am willing to give small cell beekeeping a try, I'll be setting up 2 new hives soon but even so, a conversion and bee-regression process will be required: I'll be putting frames with large cell foundation from the NUCs into the hives which will, over time, need replacing with small cell.

I thought I had a question when I started this reply but I guess all I've done is state my willingness to give small cell a try.

George-

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>So it ends up with a little over an inch gap.

Ah, the exacting science of beekeeping... ;)

Mike, your pictures keep getting better all the time!

[Michael Bush]

>What I don't understand is if this smaller size protects or controls mites why did the wild honey bees get hit so hard by the mites?

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000192#000005

[Oyster]

Michael and Bullseye Bill,

Thanks for the explanations and photo.


I will experiment with small comb on one of my three hives. My brood boxes are one deep and one medium. Which box should I experiment with first, or should I do small cells on both sizes at the same time? Should I wait till next year's honey flow and do a 10-frame box, or can I do it this year with a frame or two at a time?

Thanks,

[Michael Bush]

>I will experiment with small comb on one of my three hives. My brood boxes are one deep and one medium. Which box should I experiment with first, or should I do small cells on both sizes at the same time?

I would try to convert one hive over to small cell if that's your intent. Anywhere there is brood would be where you need to have small cell comb.

>Should I wait till next year's honey flow and do a 10-frame box, or can I do it this year with a frame or two at a time?

You'll actually have better luck before and after the main flow. Bees tend to draw smaller cells off of the flow than on. During the flow they seem to build more honey storage cells and these are often larger. But anytime is a good time to start. Even on the flow they will probably draw smaller cells from the small cell foundation.

[Oyster]

Michael,

I placed my order for small cell foundation today with Brushy Mountain. I just wish that I had ordered sooner. My shipment won't go out till after Memorial Day.

Thanks,