Bad winter?

[Jorge]

Hi,

I have read a couple of reports in the news about how bad this winter was with the mites and extended cold (last one in the New York Times).

I was wondering if you people would be interested in kind of count (not wuite a poll really, sorry) including the following 3 items:
1) How many hives dead,
2) total hives before winter,
3) Method(s) of mite control

Jorge

[Jorge]

Oops, should have added my answer:

5 dead hives
10 total
(summer) fogged FGMO no cords + (fall) oxalic acid

[Joel]

Jorge, We've had considerable feedback on the times article at NYC Green Market and heard the doom news from various and sundry bee mags & web sites. We had the best winter we've ever had. Less than 10% losses and our hives were just bulging in the spring waiting to be split. (of course any good farmer knows the normal projection after such success is that they'll probably all be dead next week). We wintered 120, lost 9 and split to 287 (including 100 5 frame nucs). We expect to split some again as we ran out of equipment and had some crowded splits. We will only keep 150. We heard about losses from our customers but nothing worse than previous years.

[Jim Fischer]

> We heard about losses from our customers but
> nothing worse than previous years.

Exactly. Losses were worse this year than in
many prior years, but no worse than in other
"bad years".

Doom-and-gloom predictions of the "death of
beekeeping, film at 11" are greatly exaggerated.

[HarryVanderpool]

I agree with Mr. Fischer's doom and gloom comment.
Also, I have noticed lately that too much emphisis is placed on mites and not nearly enough on the basics.
Beginners with their first hive right out of bee school are already talking about the newest and most questionable mite control methods.
I wonder if many hives are lost to oversight of the basics and blamed on the mites.
What were beekeepers fussing over before mites? Those things are still as important as ever.
Good queens,(and the proper handling of queens),
recognizing the different types of queen cells and their cause, nutrition, winter populations, and disease control to name a few are still there.
:cool:

[MountainCamp]

Before mites winter losses ranged between 5 to over 25%.
I agree that mites are the catch all that covers all ills and loses.
Wintering hives is very much a site specific endeavor and requires work at finding the technique that works for your site.
I went into this past winter with 22 hives and lost 1. Not to mites, but to trying a new idea that did not work.

[Joel]

Mountaincamp, that is an exceptional number for you're locale. From reading other threads I know you have a pretty well laid out system. It would be great if you did a post sharing some of your key methodololy. Many would be interested in hearing it, including me!

[Robert Brenchley]

On this side of the Atlantic I had a pretty mild winter on the whole, and wintered three out of three. You never can tell!

[MountainCamp]

Joel, I have only been keeping bees for 10 years and I DON'T DO a number of things that I really should. I will apologize for the length of this post in advance.
I have grown from the first hive purchased and lost to 40 hives presently.
My winter success has been improving with time and experience.
That being said, my methods and ideas are pretty simple.
I have not used Apistan or Checkmite in over 7 years.
My mites checks consist of looking at drone brood on hive inspections and checking bottoms boards.
Most of my hives are Russian, Russian hive raised - locally breed queens, and local swarms / removals. But, I do have some carni hives as well.
When I smoke a hive, I use sumac, and or pine sawdust / chips as my fuel. Sumac is supposed to have some effect on the mites.
I have SBB on about ½ my hives. Yet the hives on regular BB are doing well.
Most of my hives are in 3 deeps.
I start planning and getting ready for next season as soon as I pull off the fall honey crop.
I feed in spring and fall with spearmint and wintergreen oils in the syrup. Approximately 40 drops per gallon (20 drops ea.). This past December and again in February use the OA trickle method. I am not sure how I like it yet, the method is easy, and depending on who you talk to, not harmful to the hive, I will have to evaluate the hives and their build up this year. Of the hives treated I have split / divided all but 5. I have not seen any real ill effects this spring.
When I fall feed, I feed a lite syrup with the oils. I want to have young bees for winter and the oils are supposed to interrupt and inhibit mite reproduction.
I feed very late into fall / early winter. To have young bees as they are the ones that get through winter and get you started for spring.
I feed late winter / early spring. To be able to make up my splits / divides.
I place an empty hive body / feeder box on the hive, then the inner and outer cover.
I wrap my hives for winter with black felt paper / roofing paper.
I found that almost all of my loses over the years were in late winter / early spring. My loses were from cold starving, clusters that went vertical and got themselves separated from their food, or plain starvation.
The combination of the empty box and felt paper allows me to feed later in the fall and earlier in the spring.
I feed using jar feeders on the top bars. I have found that the cluster can move and feed as a group this way, they do not have to come above the top bars, they can remain clustered, and still use the feeders.
When I am done with my late season feeding, I place a sheet of paper with granulated sugar on it on top of the top bars in the center of the hive body. The paper and sugar absorb and help regulate moisture in the hive. It will also act as emergency feed if a cluster goes vertical and finds itself at the top of the hive.
The empty box also allows me to check the colony without having to disturb it. I can pop the tops and look in on them, without the empty box if they were against the inner cover, they would be disturbed.
The empty box also allows me to feed the cluster where it is, whether they are in the center or to one side of the hive body. With an inner cover you are restricted to feeding through the center cutout.

I have yards in Round Top at two locations and one in Catskill.
My winter success has been fairly consistent based on how I prepare the hives.

Round Top:
Fall 1995: lost 5 of 5 hives to bears (3 days to move 5 hives, 2 days for bears to find)
Fall 1996: lost 1 of 1 to robbing (first purchased package)
Winter of 97/98: Lost 2 of 4 hives – Not wrapped
Winter of 98/99: Lost 3 of 7 hives – Not wrapped
Winter of 99/00: Lost 3 of 10 hives - Wrapped
Winter of 00/01: lost 2 of 14 hives – Wrapped, feeder box,
Winter of 01/02: lost 2 of 14 hives – Wrapped, feeder box,
Winter of 02/03: Lost 1 of 14 hives – Wrapped, feeder box - paper & sugar
Winter of 03/04: Lost 10 of 14 hives– Not Wrapped, feeder box - paper & sugar
Winter of 04/05: Lost 1 of 17 hives - Wrapped, feeder box - paper & sugar
Treatments:
1995: Apistan
1996: Apistan
1997: Checkmite (spring only)
1998: No treatments
1999: HBH in spring and fall syrup
2000: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup
2001: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup
2002: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup
2003: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup
2004: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup; December 04 OA Trickle method
2005: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring syrup; Feb 05 OA Trickle method

Catskill:
This yard was started in the spring of 2002. I moved (6) hives that had over wintered in Round Top for (2) seasons of Russian stock.
Winter of 2002 -03: Lost 3 of 6 hives from moisture. I wrapped and did not take into consideration the added moisture from the river.
Split remaining hives used bought Russian queens. (3rd season for 3 hives, 1st for 3 hives)
Winter of 2003-04: Lost 2 of 6 hives, (1) cold Starved, (1) moisture a mouse had blocked off the air flow. No wrapping.
Split (1) hive allowed to raise it’s own queen. (4th season for 3 hives, 2nd for 1 hive, 1st for 1 hive)
Put all (5) hives on SBB.
Winter of 2004-05: Lost 0 of 5 hives. Wrapped all w/ open SBB all winter. Empty box w/ paper and granulated sugar on top bars.
(5th season for 3 hives, 3rd for 1 hive, 2nd for 1 hive)
Outside of the (3) Russian queens bought in 2003, these hives have raised their own queens when ever needed.
Mite treatments for these hives:
2000: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup (at Round Top)
2001: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup (at Round Top)
2002: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup
2003: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup
2004: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring and fall syrup; December 04 OA Trickle method
2005: Wintergreen & Spearmint oils in spring syrup; Feb 05 OA Trickle method

I hope that some of this information is useful. If you have any questions, please let me know.

[Joel]

Thanks Mountaincamp. Great amount of relative information showing good relationship between practices and success. I have gotten soft wintering in the South. We have decided with our numbers to limit hives for migration. I'm going to print this out and make use of this very valuable information. I really, and am sure others so, appreciate your time and willingness to share. We sure have plenty of sumac. Everthing seem straight forward except what you are wrapping with. Thanks!!

[TwT]

were can you buy Wintergreen & Spearmint oils ?

[kenpkr]

Just about any health/natural food store.

[MountainCamp]

My thinking with the wrapping is less for insulative value, but for wind protection and solar gain.
The black felt paper increases the solar gain of the hive on those sunny late winter and early spring days.
The extra heating of the hive allows the clusters to move and get stores.
This past winter I watch clusters using jar feeders on sunny days that were in the mid 20's, while on cloudy days alittle warmer they were not.

[Dan Williamson]

MountainCamp...

Seems to me by looking at your numbers that wrapping the hives had the greatest benefit and your worst losses happened when you did not wrap.

I fed in the fall and wrapped with roofing paper. I lost 0 of 3. I need to do a better job with helping the moisture escape though. I wintered in 2 deeps and a med super for 2 hives. The 3rd hive had a med of brood and a deep on top full of stores. It made it through fine although weaker than the other 2.

I attempted to feed this spring but got no takers. They had plenty of their own stores and never took any of mine.

Dan

[power napper]

Excellent job there mountain camp, this winter I shall copy some of your proven ideas. Thank you.

[MountainCamp]

I need to add, when I don't smoke a hive I use a bottle sprayer that I have a very lite sugar syrup in. When there are no supers on, I add a few drops of the oils to the mix.