Information Wanted

[Dave W]

Greetings . . .

As a NewBEE, I have found that EVERY method and "How-to" idea about beekeeping has an "oposite-view" expressed somewhere.

I have chosen to use APISTAN. Most of the info I have found, seems incomplete, except for some negative ideas expressed here (details lacking).

Package instructions are a joke! No wonder that some use it "incorrectly".

Is there a good info source available?

thanx

[Dick Allen]

First among many sites that come come up on google under 'apistan' is www.apistan.com. (http://www.apistan.com.) Their instructions seemed pretty straight forward.

What particularly don't you understand from the instructions, Dave?

[Dave W]

Dick Allen, Greetings . . .

"Effective control may be achieved by treating in spring and fall" - Is that once each season OR can you use it 1, 2, or 3 times (back-to-back treatments), say in fall, when counts are high? Can I use in summer?

"Hang strips within 2 combs of bee cluster" - I have to assume that means in spring, where do you put them in fall?

Is this a good time to discuss "resistance management"?

[newbee 101]

I was wondering that too, since I just used it for the first time. I think as far as the brood area, I believe its closer to the center of your frames in the fall. I use 2 deeps for winter so I put in 2 for each deep, on what I thought to be the edges of the middle. (dunno if that makes sense http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif )

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"To bee or not to bee, that is the question"

[BjornBee]

Resistant management in using chemicals should include,

Using chemicals only when mite monitoring calls for it.

Using the chemicals for no longer than the directions call for.

Rotating between Apistan, checkmite, and perhaps another third option. If you use a three year rotation, resistance is almost non-existant.

Do not use apistan every spring, and checkmite every fall like some do. Talk about causing problems.

Most resistance, and I know I've said this a number of times lately, is almost always due to two things. 1. Leaving the strips in for extended periods (like all winter). 2. Using the same type strips every year.

If you achieve a good mite kill with whatever method or chemical you use in the fall, most times (always exceptions) mite treatments in the spring are not needed. Knowing how, and performing monthly mite checks is important. This should allow you to use Apistan one year(fall), checkmite the next fall, and so on.

You should not need multiple chemical treatments (per year) if you are doing things correctly. These would include, requeening, good management practices to keep stress deseases at bay, screen bottoms, proper ventalations, hives in full sun, and so on. Overall healthy hives will help themselves with grooming, and hygenic behavior traits, but they need good overall management help from the beekeeper.

I would never use the same chemical back to back. This will lead directly to resistance.

It should also be noted that resistant AFB is on the increase. Many new beekeepers use terramyacin in some form or another after being told by old-timers to "throw it in to be safe". I've seen new beekeepers with new wood, new foundation, new bees, and terramyacin patties on. Untill you have it, do not treat for it. Terramyacin should not be "preventative". Mites have options, but full-blown resistance AFB will be deadly in the future.

[Dick Allen]

>"Effective control may be achieved by treating in spring and fall" - Is that once each season

Yes, just once. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to do the treatment, which is two complete brood cycles. That will kill 95 % or better of the mites whether there is a low or high mite count (*IF* mites in your area haven’t developed resistance to Apistan).

>OR can you use it 1, 2, or 3 times (back-to-back treatments), say in fall, when counts are high?

No, the instructions say “Do not leave strips in the hive for more than 56 days (eight weeks)” One treatment is all you need to do. If you still have mites after 6 to 8 weeks with Apistan in the hive, the mites are resistant to Apistan. Leaving strips in longer or putting in fresh ones will serve no purpose.

>Can I use in summer?

You can but not if you have supers on with honey you are going to extract. If you treat in summer you are supposed to remove supers before treating. “Remove honey supers before application of Apistan strips and do not replace until the end of the control period (six to eight weeks)”

>"Hang strips within 2 combs of bee cluster" - I have to assume that means in spring, where do you put them in fall?

In the fall you would “Hang the strips within two combs of the edge of the bee cluster” also. You might not need to treat twice each year.


[This message has been edited by Dick Allen (edited October 21, 2004).]

[Robert Brenchley]

One treatment a year will do it provided you don't have resistant mites. There is a simple test available, but I've never used it since I don't use the stuff. There's a simple reason for that; its very persistent in wax, and it apparently affects breeding ability. I personally think that the bees have enough to cope with without that, but if you're aware of the disadvantages, and feel comfortable with it, go ahead. Just follow the label and don't leave strips in all winter whatever you do, since that's the sort of thing which encourages resistance.

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Regards,

Robert Brenchley

RSBrenchley@aol.com
Birmingham UK

[nursebee]

Why have you chosen to use Apistan and for what purpose are you using it?

With 500 posts, how are you a NEWBEE?

What are your mite counts? Have you tried any other management methods?

[jfischer]

The problem with "instructions" is that they
must be approved by the EPA, and once
approved, require the manufacturer to seek
approval for any changes, most often by
submitting some form of study data to
support the changes.

When Apistan was first introduced, it was
thought that spring AND fall treatments
were required to control varroa. Later,
it was found that this was over-use.

While the confusion in the wording is
unacceptable, most of the confusion can be
resolved if one attends one's local and
state bee meetings and takes notes or takes
the hand-outs.

As far as "EVERY method" having an "opposite
view", this is more of a function of the
stubborn and creative nature of beekeepers,
where it is nearly a universal to think
that one's own experience or situation is
unique. Further, it is common for beekeepers
to utilize out-of-date reference materials,
containing "facts" that have since been
tested and found to be simply untrue.

If one attends a regional beekeeper's
association meeting, such as EAS or HAS,
one quickly finds in the workshops that
there IS a consensus on nearly every aspect
of "state-of-the-art" beekeeping, with
very little room for misunderstanding.
I attened both EAS and HAS this year, and
hope to continue to attend both every year.

If one subscribes to either or both of the
beekeeping magazines, this is another way
to avoid the confusion over apparent
contradictions.

But pesticide instructuions should be MUCH
more clear than they are, and beekeepers
are well-advised to complain loudly about
poor or unclear wording.

[Finman]

I used apistan over 10 years, but now i have apistan resistant mites in my hives.

Apistan is easy to use. It is used after bees are in winter ball. I have never used it during spring.

Apistan can violate queen, if you put a strip to a two frame copulating nuc.

Now I use oxalic acid dripping