Small-hive-beetle IPM method ?

[db_land]

Reading about the small-hive-beetle (SHB) life cycle I noted this info:
1) the fully developed larvae are approx. 10-11mm long and ~2mm in diameter;
2) then they leave the hive and burrow into the soil to pupate - they burrow 1-4 inches deep within about 12 inches of the hive entrance (or whereever they exit the hive and find a place to burrow);
3) the adult hive beetle emerges fully grown and is 5-7mm long and 3-4.5mm wide.
If this info is factual for a significant percentage of the beetles, then a possible IPM approach to SHB control might be to embed a 2-2.5mm screen (~ 1/10 inch mesh) in sandy/loamy soil under and around the hive: the larvae would burrow through but be trapped there as adult beetles :> )
Do you think this would work? Is this worth investigating in a scientific experiment? Is anyone out there with enough SHBs to test this idea?


------------------

[Michael Bush]

Interesting idea. I don't know if the adults would try to work their way around until they got to the edge of the cloth? I suppose if it's embeded in the dirt, they would have to go a ways

I wonder what a #7 Screened Bottom Board would do? Would the larvae fall through?

[db_land]

The larvae could easily pass through either #7 or #8 SBB. In fact, the adult beetles can get through #7 (the holes are about 3.6 mm) and maybe through #8 (holes about 3 mm). Don't know if SBB makes a hive more susceptable to small-hive-beetle invasion. Has anyone done a study on this?

[Michael Bush]

My point is to encourage the larvae to fall through the bottom to a tray which they cannot just crawl out of but would be trapped there. Perhaps some flour in a tray would dehydrate them. That way they wouldn't make it to the ground.

This would have the added feature of allowing you to watch them die a slow death if you want. Not pratical, but very satisfying in it's own way.

Dr Rodriguez is using a trap in front of the entrance with sawdust and FGMO I believe.

I think your idea may have some merit, but it takes less hardware cloth to do the bottom board. One could also put plastic down to keep them out of the dirt, but how far will they crawl? Apparently a ways.

The other question (for your hardware cloth method) is how far will the adults burrow and what will happen when they encoutner the hardware cloth? I think it makes sense that they would waste a lot of time trying to find a hole big enough and in the process work themselves to death.

I have the great fortune of having never SEEN a hive beetle so I don't know enough about how they behave.

[AstroBee]

I seriously doubt that SBBs promote SHB infestations. However, I have no scientific data to support that statement. I do know that SHB have NO trouble at all finding the entrances to hives and there is little that the bees can do to stop them from entering. I am in SHB territory and have observed the beetle’s behavior every time I open my hives. (This was a particularly bad year for beetles) I have noticed that the SHB aggressively seek out the hive. Once I shook a frame that had about 30 SHBs and a good number of bees. Much to my surprise, the SHB flew back to the frame faster than the bees, and the ones that didn't make it to the frame went back to the hive through the main entrance!

In regards to your original proposition, I seriously doubt that you'll trap adult SHBs under any type of "check valve" like mesh. However it’s worth a try. Let us know what you discover.

On a related note, I recently spoke to our state inspector and she mentioned that they are observing SHB pupation in the bottom board debris!! I have not seen this, but I will take extra steps to insure that my BBs are kept clean.

[dcross]

I believe Dadant has a beetle trap that sits on the bottom board and is filled with vegetable oil to drown the beetles. The openings are too small for the bees.

[db_land]

MB: I don't think SHB larvae fall off like varroa mites. But, they may crawl thru the SBB into a tray to pupate so maybe something in the tray could kill them. Part of their lifecycle is to leave the hive and burrow into the ground (1 to 4 inches) to pupate.

AstroBee: I've only ever seen a max of two beetles in a hive so I just don't have enough around to test the #10 mesh idea.

If its so easy for SHB to enter via a reduced entrance then having the hive bottom wide open for them probably doesn't matter. Do the bees attack the larvae as they try to exit the hive via the entrance to pupate? Seems to me a SBB would likely make it easier for the SHB larvae to get out and find a place to pupate.

Are there any test results or experience for Dr Rodriguez's sawdust-FGMO trap?
Any test results or experience for the efficacy of Dadant's beetle trap?

[Tia]

db_land, I'm a basically new beekeeper (March 03) and fortunately SHB hasn't gotten into my area yet, but since I'm a "natural" gardener/beekeeper, your idea of putting mesh down on the ground around the hive sounds like a darned good idea to me. I know that merely covering the ground with plastic, wood, or what have you doesn't stop them. We were discussing an article at our beekeeping meeting (I don't remember which magazine) where they put hives on an old airstrip and the SHB just moved to the edge of the strip, burrowed in, did their thing and returned to the hives! As for me--and this has been "poo-pooed" by some and encouraged by others--I'm getting chickens this spring. Chickens love SHB larvae and it will make for a very symbiotic situation: The bees will take care of my garden (the reason I got them last March), the chickens (and I) will take care of the bees. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work. I'll still reap the bonus of some great manure for my compost and eggs for breakfast!

[Michael Bush]

I think it will all depend on the timing. The chickens may discover the SHB larvae and have a feast or they may be busy with the grasshoppers or the june bugs or whatever else is hatching. But, as you say, it couldn't hurt.

I have chickens and I notice the ticks, and the grasshoppers etc. are a lot less. There will be a lot when they first hatch, but usually the chickens knock the population down quickly. This third year of drought in a row brought so many grasshoppers and the coyotes ate so many chickens, that the chickens couldn't keep up this year.

[BjornBee]

The idea of the mesh is based around after the worm leaves the hive. In place of the mesh, which I doubt would work, but nice thought, how about the following. (And a comment thrown in too.)

1) Stargard for those not apposed to chemicals.

2) Salt. This will make the soil not condusive to pupation. It will also keep the weeds down in front of the hive.

3) Move your hive to a new location. This is good for a host of reasons.

4) Place a large piece of rubber under the hives. I already do this for weeds, etc, but would make the mesh screen not needed.

5)Maintain strong hives. If your concerned about the worms leaving the hive and going into the soil, you got more problems inside the hive. The bees should be dragging them out before they mature to that point.

6)Do not store more comb on the hive than they can defend or need.

7)Do not let your hives requeen themselves. It takes to long to get brood going again and the beetle will take advantage. Your bees can not go 44 days without new bees. Requeen immediately.

8)Having beetles is one thing. Having a hive destroyed by beetles means that something else is wrong. Know what your looking at.

[AstroBee]

db_land,

I definitely have enough beetles to conduct this test, but time to set it up is another thing. Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my previous response. I guess there's chance that the 10-mesh screen may provide some relief. It's just that my experience (and from others in my area) that these beetles are very resilient creatures!

To do this experiment properly would require more time than I can devote to it now. However, I would gladly send you plenty of SHB so you can run it yourself http://www.beesource.com/ubb/wink.gif

Yes, I have seen SHB larva crawling out of the hive and the bees did not attack them, however I did!

BTW, I've been treating the ground with GuardStar and using the CheckMite under cardboard squares. Also, I’m very very careful about hive hygiene - clean BB, and I NEVER leave honey supers unattended. Overall, I'm not too impressed with the effectiveness of the chemical treatments (simply based upon the number of SHB I'm carrying in the hives), but its difficult to access the impact on the hives. Despite being a poor honey year and the SHB population my hives did pretty well (about 6 gallons per hive - for my area of VA that's pretty good). Until I detect a noticeable impact on productivity I'll probably not pursue alternate treatments.

[Robert Brenchley]

If you have chickens in a small enclosure they'll clean up almost anything bar stnging nettles. They'll get any larvae coming out in the day, I'm sure, but they'll miss anything moving at night.

------------------
Regards,

Robert Brenchley

RSBrenchley@aol.com
Birmingham UK

[Michael Bush]

I suppose Robert is right. My chickens are free range so they go where they want. However, if you enclosed them in the area with the hives, I have no doubt they wouldn't miss seeing the larvae.

[Tia]

I'm getting a morbid sort of comfort from you beekeepers who are already being victimized by the SHB. The way they're talking around here, I was under the impression that once the SHB invaded, you may as well burn the hive--that they make a mess out of foundation so quickly the bees can't keep up and very often abscond!

So far as the chickens go, my intention is to put a chicken coop in the bee yard and fence the whole thing in with netting above (no coyotes but we gotta watch for hawks and snakes). Like I said, it can't hurt!

[Michael Bush]

I have lots of redtailed hawks and great horned owls around and have never lost a chicken to either. My biggest problems have been possums, skunks and coyotes with an occasional raccon or feral cat. The cats usually only get the chicks and don't bother the adults.

[db_land]

Tia: I'm a strong believer in sustainable agriculture and like the chickens idea. I assume (since MB has them around) chickens don't eat bees?

BjornBee: Since the SHB larvae will crawl many yards across concrete to find a place to burrow, I doubt that salt or a rubber mat/tarp would bother them. Sounds like StarGuard isn't getting the job done either. I don't have a SHB problem in my hives - I'm just trying to come up with something that might help those bee people that do. I agree with your other suggestions/comments.

Why not take advantage of the SHB's natural tendency to burrow close to the hive. If the edges of the mesh are turned down about 1 inch, its unlikely that the emerging adult will escape and infest a hive. Its not 100% effective but might reduce the SHB population after a couple of generations (at least until they adapt).

[Tia]

So far only one beekeeper has told me that chickens eat bees. My county's state inspector has chickens, says they don't eat bees but love SHB larvae and highly recommends that I go ahead with my plan.

[Michael Bush]

I've had both chickens and bees for 30 years and never had a problem with the chickens eating the bees.

[Axtmann]

There are no SHB in Europe and I hope they will never arrive.
I follow your discussion and looked for information about the beetles. Would it be possible to install a landing board made from fine mesh wire in front of each hive with a metal tray under nice? If you bend the wire a little bit up the beetle larvas must go thru the wire and falling into the tray with some water. A few little holes with a needle an inch above the bottom and the tray would never filled up when raining.
If you put other things like oil and sawdust in the tray mixed with rainwater this would give a real mud and when it reach the screen the bees get stuck in it.
It’s only an idea.

[Michael Bush]

>Would it be possible to install a landing board made from fine mesh wire in front of each hive with a metal tray under nice? If you bend the wire a little bit up the beetle larvas must go thru the wire and falling into the tray with some water.

Makes sense to me. Maybe brine instead of fresh water would help. The salt would dehydrate them. Or maybe just put some water softner salt in the tray.

[AstroBee]

Axtmann:

I really like your idea! In fact, I may make it or a variant of it this winter and see what happens next season.

Has anyone ever seen a completely screened bottom board and landing pad? Most SBBs have screen over only a portion of the BB with a solid landing pad. Would there be any disadvantages of a fully screened BB and landing pad?

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Michael Bush]

>Would there be any disadvantages of a fully screened BB and landing pad?

I would seem like it would be harder to land on, but bees adapt quickly and probably wouldn't notice. I think you'd get a bit more of a draft from the extra space at the entrace, but if you did the Psuedo Slatted rack entrance reducer (a 4" piece of 3/8 plywood with three 3/8 peices of lath under it) to break the draft up, or a real slatted rack, I can't think why it wouldn't be as good. I was thinking that going to #7 hardware cloth for the bottom would increase the probability of the SHB larva falling through while still keeping the bees from getting through. Maybe if you just did a SBB with it extended to the landing board, and put some dry salt on the "mite" board (tray or whatever) then maybe they would fall in the salt and dehydrate. Even if it got a little wet, it would still probably work ok.

[db_land]

I think I'll try the extended SBB on a couple of hives next season. Who knows - besides trapping exiting SHB larvae maybe a few uninvited varroa might fall thru and die slowly ;> )

[clintonbemrose]

I have tried screen landing boards with SBB and found that the pollen carying bees loose almost all of their pollon when they land on them. I used the same screen I use in my SBB figuring that any loose mites would drop off on landing.
I did this with 10 hives and found that there was almost no pollon reserves compaired ti 10 other hives in the test group.
When we put a sticky board benith the landing pad we found a few varoa and much pollon with the screened landing boards. All 10 test hives were weaker in bees then the control group and they produced about 16 percent less honey.
Clint


------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan

[Michael Bush]

Wow! You may have discovered a simple way to build a pollen trap without forcing all those poor bees through a small hole and trapping all the drones! Maybe I will experiment more with this. It just needs a porch to keep the rain out of the pollen.

[briancady413]

To Tia: Could part of the poultry's run extend beneath the hives?
Then varroas could drop through SBBs to the waiting chickens/ducks, and perhaps enough SHB wroms/arvae would chose to crawl close enough for poultry to eat, yet birds couldn't reach the honeybees.

Visiting hives at a university, I once saw a blue jay sitting at the edge of a row of hives which would fly up every few minutes and catch and eat a bee as it left its hive.

Brian Cady

[Michael Bush]

I pretty sure a chicken won't bother with a varroa, even if they could see them. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif Not enough protien for the effort. They will eat a tick, but a tick is at least 10 times as big.

[Tia]

Brian, I'm not so much concerned with varroa since the FGMO's got that pretty much under control, but I'm really hoping it'll help if and when SHB gets to our area! The chickens will have full access to the underside of the hives, the hives being on 20" high stands.

[Michael Bush]

If the chickens are crowded into that area, they will probably eat the SHB. But if one of your hives gets hot, you may lose the chickens if they can't run away. It couldn't hurt to give them access to the area. My chickens are usually loose, but then they don't hang out around the hives.

[Tia]

Michael, I don't know much--if anything--about chickens at this point, but what I was intending to do was fence in the bee yard to an area of about 100' X 100'. The fencing would enclose my three hives and a 4X8 chicken coop as well as a big old pine tree that stands behind the hives. I'm thinking that would give the chickens plenty of running room and the protection of the coop, no? Besides, if my bees ever get hot, I'll requeen right away. Some beekeepers tell me that a hot hive produces more honey, but it's the garden pollination I'm interested in more than the honey--eventhough my hive #2 produced over 5 gallons of surplus honey for me this year! The funny thing is, my bees were very hot when I got them, but are now extremely docile. I did requeen one hive with a hygenic Italian queen, but the other two hives have buckfast queens that have superceded and they, too, are docile.

[Michael Bush]

>what I was intending to do was fence in the bee yard to an area of about 100' X 100'. The fencing would enclose my three hives and a 4X8 chicken coop as well as a big old pine tree that stands behind the hives. I'm thinking that would give the chickens plenty of running room and the protection of the coop, no?

Sounds good. All I'm saying is the crowding them into the hives enough to feel it would protect me from SHB would also put them at the mercy of the bees.

>Besides, if my bees ever get hot, I'll requeen right away. Some beekeepers tell me that a hot hive produces more honey

From my experience, hot hives are robbers and the STEAL a lot of honey.

>The funny thing is, my bees were very hot when I got them, but are now extremely docile. I did requeen one hive with a hygenic Italian queen, but the other two hives have buckfast queens that have superceded and they, too, are docile.

Well superceding can make a lot of difference.

[briancady413]

Tia, Mike,

Could bottom board screen separate bees and chickens, (for the sake of both), yet allow varroa and SHB down through?

Brian Cady

[Michael Bush]

>Could bottom board screen separate bees and chickens, (for the sake of both), yet allow varroa and SHB down through?

If you mean a regular SBB, sure as long as the chickens can still get away from the bees if attacked.

If you mean enough of the screen make a pen to let the chickens under the hives but the bees can't get to them, sure, if you want to spend a lot of money on #7 or #8 hardware cloth.



[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited December 31, 2003).]

[mattoleriver]

I've heard of spreading diatomaceous earth on the ground for flea control, maybe it would help with SHB control also. IIRC the idea is that the DE scratches the pest's carapace and the pest then dehydrates. DE is the silica skeletons of one celled critters, essentially microscopic ground glass. It's non-toxic and all natural. I've never tried the stuff, maybe somebody else can offer an informed opinion.
George

[AstroBee]

I did try the diatomaceous earth last summer and to be honest I really can't say if it helped at all. We all had a bad year with SHB. Because its completely natural and surely cannot hurt the situation, I may give it another go this summer.