Natural hives and mite fall

[Michael Bush]

How many of you have ever taken a colony out of a tree? I tell you what I usually find. The entrance(s) are usually in the middle of the nest somewhere with comb exending further down and further up from the entrance. The brood nest is usually near the top in the center. The distance from the bottom comb to the debris pile at the bottom is usually at least a few inches to several feet. The debris pile is full of wax worms and all kinds of other beetles and insects that have taken up residence. The debris is a mixture of wax scales, old comb, dead bees, wax moth webs etc. The bees fly into the entrance and land in the middle of the comb. If mites fall down below, I don't think they would climb all the way back up. No bees are walking across the bottom, in fact they avoid the debris at the bottom.

Now in our hives the bees walk right across the bottom to get to the combs. They land on it and walk on it. If any mites fall on the bottom they climb back on another bee and ride back up.

Does this work bettter? Can we duplicate it? We've had talk about Screened Bottom Boards, Open Bottom Boards, Slatted Racks, Top Entrances. Maybe we should have a middle entrance with a screened bottom board that can be removed as a cleanout (to prevent the debris problems).

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[ikeepbees]

I don't have a lot of experience with wild hives, but if what you say is true, then your idea makes sense to me. If and when I am able to observe a wild hive I will look for this.

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Rob Koss

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Does this work bettter? Can we duplicate it? We've had talk about Screened Bottom Boards, Open Bottom Boards, Slatted Racks, Top Entrances. Maybe we should have a middle entrance with a screened bottom board that can be removed as a cleanout (to prevent the debris problems).

Nine of my hives are already configured just like that.

I bought the top entrances from Humble Adobe. They turn into mid entrances when you stack on the supers. For those of you that don't recognize the product, get a Bee Culture or ABJ, there are pictures in the advertisments that may explane better.

I have had some very good results, and some not so good results.

The first two I bought, I got the whole kit. That includes: a bottom board with a cleanout tray, the top entrance with landing pad, and an extended top cover.

The bottom board is NOT a screened board, it does have a tray that catches the debris. I have mostly found only propolis on it, a few crumbs, not much else. The tray has a knob attached to a wooden block that seals the bottom and keeps anything from entering or exiting, including air. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/frown.gif

The top/mid entrance is about four inches deep and has a box in the center that allows the bees to travel up and down the interior walls and keeps the queen from traveling up into the honey supers. There is no need for a queen excluder. This aspect works very well, I have not ever found any trace of a queen in the honey supers.

The opening is about 2 x 4 inches, oval, and has bars like a little jail spaced 3/8 apart, mouseproof? Maybe. There is also a metal landing pad that inserts inbetween the entrance box and the brood box for the bees to land on.

The top is extended about four inches for an overhang to keep weather from entering the box. This would be good during the winter, but with supers on it makes little sense. You would very definatly need a block on top to keep it from blowing off, especially here, smack dab in .... http://www.beesource.com/ubb/wink.gif

The first two kits I bought were the whole kit-n-kaboodle. I installed swarms in them and requeened with Cordovans. One went well and the other superceeded itself, I think, or she was bread with something else, whatever. Both of these colonies adapted to the configuration just as advertised.

The next time I ordered I did not order the bottom boards as I wanted to use the regular ones I already had. I did invest in the screens that set on top of regular BB's. Sorry I can't remember from where I ordered them. Don't bother ordering them anyway, they are not any good in my observations. Anyway, I wanted to use these screens but they did not provide a way to clean out from under them, so I modified them. Since I didn't need a bottom entrance I inserted a block of wood across the entrance and left enough space for a tray to slide under it.

I put this configuration on my four oldest colonies with mixed results. Two of the hives were confused and grouped on the bottom where they had always came and went from, they never found the top entrance. It interupted one of the hives to the point that it interfrerred with the main flow and I got only one super of honey. After two weeks I removed the plug in the screen to let them use the bottom entrance, they were all messed up and swarmed a couple of times and finally got pollen plugged. All kinds of problems arose from that ordeal. The other I opened up and they settled down and now the stack is over six feet high.

Of the other two, they found the top entrances, one I left the plug on and they are working well. The other I opened up and it too is progressing, slowly.

In these four hives I had the only problems. I will change out the BB's with SBB's and I am sure they will do much better next year.

In the next five, I used my SBB's, the top entrances, and the extended top covers. I have had no problems with this configuration. No bee beards, no congestion, and I believe that the honey cures quicker.

The only problem, and I can't confirm this, is when I use a miller feeder above the top entrance with no surplus supers, there MAY be some robbing. I know in some cases there is not as there will sometimes be syrup left over the following week. There is no fighting, just a lot of bees coming and going, but with two entrances the residents may be using the bottom entrance and the robbers the top. Again I can't confirm this as there is a lot of activity everywhere, and trying to watch them is nearly impossible, they appear to be flying away from the yard.

All in all, the SBB's are working great. When I put on a tray and check it the following week I find almost no mites, sometimes none at all. And I can close them up whenever I want.

The top entrance is good too. It provides ventilation, easier access to the storage area, and no need for an excluder. The little landing pads are not manditory, but nice, except they will fall and you have to pick them up and stick them back in after you restack the entrance, a slight hassel.

The tops are another niceity. The porch idea is ok, but again you have to worry about the wind or weight the tops down.

The only sign of poor ventilation is on one of the two with the closed bottom boards, but what would you expect when the temps are over 100 day after day.

I may have more to report after I requeen the weekend after Labor Day.



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Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I might get Drone status...

We have had two major storms in the last two weeks. Isolated, no rain, just a big blow, the last one we had 122 mph wind. As a result I have been contacted to remove two hives in trees laying down.

The first was a cottonwood, I put a board on the bottom and it is now standing in the back yard. It's about five foot high and 12 inches across. I have some pictures as soon as I can figure out the posting. Because it is so late in the year I am going to wait until next spring to remove the colony. There was a squirrl nest in the bottom of the hive that restricted it's downward expansion. What a mess, no wax moths though.

The other is one that I just looked at tonight. A hackberry tree laying on it's side, a bit more of a callenge. It is about 16 inches in diameter and no telling how long it will be. Major wood, it will be REAL heavy. I will bring it home next week.

I am thinking that I may split the hackberry trunk in two lengthwise and let the other hives in my yard rob it out and let the survivors join themselves with my existing hives.

Still Learnin'

[BjornBee]

Interesting observation M.B.

I have discussed the idea or my method of the upper holes for access and ventalation a few times in the past. I have never really thought about the idea that this may be helping with the mite situation.

I did observe that about half of the hives at this time are almost exclusively using the upper entrances for foraging. No bees coming or going from the main lower entrance although there are gaurd bees and those just chilling. I guess the concept or idea that I may not be maximizing from, is getting the rest of the bees off the bottom board.

I have already started to convert some of my wood bottom to those with screens. Eliminating the access at the bottom and making the bees use middle entrances makes sense for me. I am wondering about how far the distance to the bottom would be optimal? And any bad effect of heat loss having on entrances up on the hive through winter?

This is the sort of idea that along with other little items, may collectively make the difference in the long run.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Bjorn,
I think that it is essential to use SBB's. One, for ventilation, and two so the mites can drop through and out of the hive.

I see problems with my hives that are blocked off at the bottom, ESPECIALLY with the solid bottoms. More massing at the entrance (top) and much more fanning. During winter months I would think that you should have the bottoms blocked if you were to keep the top entrance open. That configuration would allow for warmth to be retained and moisture to vent.

As for the distance to the bottoms, I think that any distance that seperates the mites from the bees should work. Typically on mine I have 3/4 inch from the screen to the tray when it is in, and 1 1/2 inch to the stand under the SBB when the tray is removed. That works well for me.

Bill

[Michael Bush]

Someone has posted that there was a study and that about four inches underneath was optimal. That sounds like a lot, but then it's about what I usually see at the bottom of a feral hive in a tree. I saw a plan for a TBH that used a plastic light diffuser that is a plastic grid with 3/8" or 1/4" squares. What if you put that on the bottom to keep them from building past it (sort of like a slatted rack) and left room for everything (dead bees, wax scales, mites etc.) to fall below that and left about a four inch drawer to clean it out?

Just thinking out loud.

[Russ]

This may not be a concern but with the bees entering midway up would there be a chance of mites dropping off one bee and hopping on the next one with the entrance this high above the screen. Just my thoughts. Dale

[Michael Bush]

I figure that happens in any hive all the time. Not just when there is traffic at the door. But I think, mites that make it to the bottom should stay there.

[BILLY BOB]

Hey guys.

I think I've seen what your talking about Bill. I also think this hive had screen on the bottom. From what I can remember this guy had 1\4" hardware cloth on the bottom. I've ask the questions befor on the form but got mixed replies. This guy said that bees look to rob hives from the top not the bottom and even though any bee could go through the bottom they never bothered due to the fact they were looking/flying around the top. He kept the hive around 4 to 6 inch. off the ground. The entrance was just above the brood box. I may try this next year. I'll look it up in last months ABJ.

BB