Oxamite Strips

[dp]

I have found a website that sells the oxamite strips. Has anyone in the U.S. tried them? Are they legal here? I would like to use something beside apistan.

[Dave W]

Greetings dp

Why?

Dave W

[Michael Bush]

>Has anyone in the U.S. tried them?

Several people on this board have talked about tryng them.

>Are they legal here?

Not exactly. They are not specifically illegal. But they are not approved as a pesticide.

>I would like to use something beside apistan.
>>Dave W
>>Why?

I don't know what dp's reasons are but here are a few of mine:

1) I don't like to use chemicals. For a lot of reasons. One if them is that there is a large error in the concept that residues stay in the brood nest and don't get migrated into the supers. Tests on honey show this, and watching the bees move large amounts of honey from one place to another in the hive should show you how this happens. Also the Apistan residue builds up over time. I don't want to handle it. I don't want to eat it. I don't want it in the food products that I sell.

2) Last time I used it it didn't work. All my bees died in spite of it. Apistan resistance is a big problem.

3) It costs too much! Especially when it doesn't work.

[dp]

Do the oxamite strips work on the same principle as the apistan strips? The pictures on the website that I saw made it look like the bees actually had chewed on the strips. The price was 10 strips for 10 bucks with a min. order of 40 strips.

[Axtmann]

I have Oxamite strips in my hives during the whole summer and it works for me. Bees have a cleaning behavior and trying to bring everything out of the hive. In this case they must chew the strips to get rid of it. I find out, if I made the strips moist with a hand sprayer before I lay them over the frames works the best, bees spreading the wet acids all over in the whole hive before they can get the strips out.
Will see how many mites are left at the end of the season when I blow acid fog in the colonies.

[loggermike]

Axtmann,I forget,which evaporator are you using?The propane heated one or the electric?On another list someone said the propane gets the oxalic too hot and a lot of it turns to water vapor.But it looks like the propane is faster,especially if you do more than one hive at a time.
---Mike

[This message has been edited by loggermike (edited August 09, 2003).]

[dp]

Is Canada the only place to order the strips? Does any one in the U.S. sell them? How much better does the Oxalic do compared to the apistan?

[Axtmann]

Loggermike I’m using the propane heated Vaporizer number 700. When heating and vaporizing oxalic acid the acid breaks in 3 different substances, a few % is formic acid approx 40% decomposes into harmless carbon dioxide and water and the other part is acid.
Oxalic acid crystals contains water that’s the reason why I go a little bit higher with my vaporizer and let the hose going down to the hive entrance so water can’t block the hose and a few drop water dos not harm the colony. I’m starting now vaporizing from the upper part of the hive; I drill a hole in the hive and put the plastic hose in. As soon as the fog comes out the entrance I have to close it and I’m sure the acid reached everything in the hive. The OA fog is a little bit heavier than air and goes easier down than up.
I close the hole when finished with a cork. Even here the vaporizer has to be a little bit higher than the hole otherwise the water drops will block the hose.
I was using an electric vaporizer before but the heat inside the hive sometimes melt the wax and killed lots of bees especially during summer when colonies are really strong and there is no space to escape.
I measured the acid fog temperature at the end from a 90 cm (3ft) hose and it was 37º Celsius / 98.6 Fahrenheit, no harm to the little girls.
After approx 14 days the heated acid decomposed and is not detectable anymore.

[loggermike]

I see they are making a double vaporizer now.Thanks for the information.I appreciate your help.
----Mike

[swarm_trapper]

so If i understand this right I buy the strips put them in the hive and take them out at the appointed time? and also can I use it in the USA? Thanks

[BWrangler]

Hi Guys,

I've done a little experimenting with oxalic acid and have a webpage describing my vaporizer at:
http://wind.prohosting.com/tbhguy/bee/oxal.htm

Regards
Dennis

[This message has been edited by BWrangler (edited August 07, 2004).]

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Great web site Dennis!

Thanks for relaying your experiances with oxalic. I have been thinking about trying it for over a year now, I think I will reread your material again.

What do you think about the strips? Are they going to show as much promise as the vapor? They would certainly be less labor intensive.

I have had the strips for some time now, I plan to install them just as soon as I determine if I will get to keep any of the surplus for myself. On the new colonies, I will install the strips when I requeen the weekend after Labor Day.



------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.

[swarm_trapper]

just for intrest what diferent varroa mite treatments are there that work? http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif also do SBB work. Thanks

[BWrangler]

Hi Bulleyes and Everyone,

I got a couple of oxamite strips when I ordered the vaporizer. Oxalic acid is not the only ingrediant in them. Some other acids and essential oils are used also, if I remember correctly.

I don't think the specific ingrediants are mentioned.

I have worked with formic, early iterations of mineral oil and several essential oils. All of these will limit mite expansion to some extent. Most of them also have a downside when placed in the hive.

I haven't tested the oxamite strips.

Regards
Dennis

[This message has been edited by BWrangler (edited August 28, 2003).]

[Axtmann]

BWrangler I’m using the Oxamite strips and I find out the strips working the best in early spring and during summer. At this time bees preparing for winter and almost all colonies stopped shredding the strips, the bees beginning to cover parts of the strip with propolis. I take the strips out and save them for next spring.
From now on I vaporize the oxalic acid but not from the bottom like you show as on your website. Drill a whole in the top and let the vapour go the other way. OA vapour is a little bit heavier the air and it is more effective to go this way. Extend your homemade vaporizer with a 1 or 2 ft clear hose than you can see when the whole process is don.
I tried a similar vaporizer like you before I purchased a 700 but had lots of problems. The pipe was always blocked with acid and I had to clean it. This will not occur when using the 700 with airflow

[BWrangler]

Hi Axtmann,

I will try the upper method. I have a hole already drilled there.

Thanks
Dennis

[Michael Bush]

Axtman,

You say you use the 700. Does this require a pump as it says on the web site? It also talks about the 600 and does not mention a pump. Do you happen to know the difference between the 600 and the 700?

The site that sells the vaporizers does not list Oxalic acid. I assume you have to buy this somewhere else?

Thanks.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Is oxalic acid a quick fix? Maybe. Is it benign at the levels used during hive treatment? Don't know but it isn't benign to the applicator at those levels. Some of the websites also show the saftey gear needed. What to take a whiff/ :> )

Long term solutions are where everyone will end up. I like small cell. It has worked for me.

Dennis
Thinking the evaporator would eventually end up in the trash like all that other stuff I tried before small cell

January 2003 Forum - Oxalic Acid

Dennis, I was shocked to see that you were trying oxalic. Great website! I hope that you are getting good results especially because I am planning to be following in your footsteps soon.

Out of curiosity, what made you decide to try oxalic?

Be sure to let me know when you trash the vaporizer, I still need one http://www.beesource.com/ubb/wink.gif

MB - You can find oxalic in the paint department at Lowes, It is a wood bleach made by Dow, very inexpensive.



------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.

[Michael Bush]

I haven't had a "problem" yet with mites using the small cell and the FGMO fog, but I do see a few and when I do a health certificate in the spring, so I can ship bees, I need to have none. I'm still hoping I won't need it, but I'm thinking it would be a good backup plan. At least it's not in the same category as the acaracides.

[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited September 09, 2003).]

[BWrangler]

Hi Bullseye and Everyone,

I have decided to migrate to top bar hives. Less than half of my equipment has been converted to small cell and is setting empty. Rather than take years, maybe decades, to convert it, I plan on filling it with bees and selling it all.

I also have some other tests concerning regression that I want to conduct and they require large cell hives which will need treatment.

Oxalic seemed like a good choice. It's non contaiminating, very easy on the bees and alot easier to use than powdered sugar.

Axtmann, I have taken your suggestions and built a hive top evaporator. It uses the vent holes in my supers and works much better than the bottom board evaporator. The hive inhales the fumes rather than exhales them.

You can see it toward the bottom of the page at:
www.geocities.com/usbwrangler/oxal.htm (http://www.geocities.com/usbwrangler/oxal.htm)

Michael, oxalic acid is readily available and cheap in bagged quantities. I only wanted a small amount and got mine at:
http://www.chemistrystore.com/

Oxalic is a common organic acid and any chemical supplier can get it but usually in a 50lb or 100lb bag.

Regards
Dennis


[This message has been edited by BWrangler (edited September 09, 2003).]

[Axtmann]

Dennis
It’s really danger what you are doing now with your home made vaporizer. To melt the oxalic acid it needs 102º C / 215ºF and to vaporize the acid you need 182º/360ºF.
If there bees or the queen close to the hot steam it would kill them immediately. You need at least 60cm/2ft. between the vaporizer and the bees that’s why I purchased a 700 from the Canadian company and use a clear plastic hose. I blow the acid with air in the hive. The air is cooling the acid fog. I checked and the temperature is approx 95 to 100ºF. I tested many homemade systems and they all killed the mites but most of them bees too.
If you come in contact with the vaporized acid in front of your tool you would burn your hand.

[BWrangler]

Hi Axtmann and Everyone,

I watched the initial application of the hive top evaporator through my plexiglass inner cover. The bees moved back from the immediate area as the evaporator was being heated and before the oxalic vaporized. No bees were killed in the test applications.

It could be the configuration of my hives that help disperse the blast of fumes. The 3/4" hole is directly in front of a frame end bar which would deflect the blast sides ways.

If the hole was directly in front of the open space between the frame end bars, I could see where a problem could develop.

Thanks, Axtmann. I will re-evaluate the situation.

Regards
Dennis

[This message has been edited by BWrangler (edited September 10, 2003).]

[BWrangler]

Hi Everyone,

I didn't mean to change the oxamite thread to an evaporator thread.

I have run some tests on the evaporator and will report them in the Oxalic thread.

Regards
Dennis