Configuration of a Brood Nest

[George Fergusson]

OK, I need some advice and opinions. I picked up 20 hives from a migratory beekeeper I know, he made me an offer I couldn't refuse. He said they were comprised of a deep and a medium (6 5/8") super.

To make a long story short, the hives turned out to be a deep and a shallow (5 5/8") super. I was initially figuring on adding a medium to make up the brood nest (1 deep and 2 mediums), it would be larger than necessary, but I didn't think that was a huge problem. Now I'm pondering just what to do. I need to get the required volume of brood nest and I'm just not sure how to do it.

I'm tempted to add a second shallow super and call it good- for one thing, I have enough and the combined volume (1 deep and 2 shallows) is just a bit more than 2 deeps and somewhat less than 1 deep and 2 mediums...

Just adding a medium to the hive would be nuts- I can't imagine the confusion and complication it would be to have my brood nest comprised of 3 different boxes of 3 different sizes. Arrgh!

Ideally, I'd just stick a deep in between the deep and shallow, let the bees draw it out and haul down what honey they wanted from the shallow, but I don't have enough.. I'd have to buy 20 or so deeps.. I can afford to, but I hadn't wanted to just now.. but maybe I should. Most of the shallows are full of just honey but some have brood in them too and splittng up the brood area now wouldn't be a great idea.

One of them is a deep ON a shallow. Still scratching my head over what to do with that one :)

Sigh. On the bright side, the hives are generally full of bees. A couple have good looking queens but no brood at all- they are honey bound... 2 have good populations but have been robbed blind. I'm still taking inventory and replacing worn out boxes. I haven't poked through all of them yet.

Anyways, I'm soliciting ideas and opinions.

George-

[Joel]

10 deep frames stastistically is plenty of room for a brood nest. Much depends though on what type of bees you have and whether they run a closed brood nest (like buckfast) or open (like italians). Those with a closed broood nest will tend to store a large band of honey and pollen around the brood nest and you may find the it necessary to have 2 deeps or a combined total to equal that for a brood nest + honey production. Open brood nest bees often due fine with 1 as long as they have honey storage above. I would want more space for honey production and wintering for bees in your area. I would move the shallow from under the one deep to on top and let them work it out from there. I would be concerned with hives that were "robbed out" as that indicates they were weakened by something or are poor quality stock and not good honey producers. It is important to look close for problems and if you elminate disease I would requeen them. If you find foulbrood and they have been robbed you may have some difficult times ahead. Over crowded hives that honeybound this early in the season will be prone to swarming at you next honey flow and likely to leave with you with weak hives to winter. Possibly you could stretch everybodies space by buying a little equipment and using it wisely.

[BeeBear]

>> I'm tempted to add a second shallow super and call it good

That's what I would do.

I agree that the ideal solution is to stick the deep in between, and I really don't think that the disruption in brood area would be a serious issue at this time of year.

How much do you want your configuration to be two deeps? How much do you want to postpone the purchase of equipment? Seems to me that that's your tradeoff.

[George Fergusson]

I have Carniolans- supposedly they run a small cluster during winter compared to some others.

2 deeps or roughly the equivilent is what I've been aiming for. Here in Maine we have long, cold winters. 2 deeps is the standard.

Several beekeepers I've spoken to this spring said they had hives that totally shut-down brood rearing at a time when they should have been hell bent for election- presumably due to the cold wet weather. I don't know if that explains my situation with the 2 hives (so far- I haven't looked in all of them yet) with NO brood and honey in all the frames or not. Perhaps. On the other end of the spectrum, I've found several that have huge populations, all kinds of brood both capped and uncapped, but very little (comparatively) honey. I just replaced their deep AND super today, they were being robbed too.

The robbing is easy to explain- these boxes had holes in them you could stick your hand in. Some had cracks you could see the ends of the frames through, and the migratory lids (er.. sheets of rotted and/or warped plywood) failed to keep robbers OR the weather out. We're talking boxes with BIG CHUNKS missing.

I've replaced the lids with new inner covers and telescoping covers all around and have replaced most of the worn-out boxes. I'll finish that task up tommorow.

There is no evidence of foulbrood in any of the hives.

I'll do what I need to do to get this sorted, including buying equipment- I've thrown too much into this to stop now.

George-

[George Fergusson]

Beebear said:

>> I'm tempted to add a second shallow super and call it good

>That's what I would do.

Great minds...

>I agree that the ideal solution is to stick the deep in between, and I really don't think that the disruption in brood area would be a serious issue at this time of year.

That's what I thought too. I've only found 1 super in 10 checked so far with brood in them. The rest are either empty (the robbed) or full of honey (the robbers).

>How much do you want your configuration to be two deeps? How much do you want to postpone the purchase of equipment? Seems to me that that's your tradeoff.

You've hit the nail on the head Beebear. THOSE are the questions.

George-

[George Fergusson]

Sigh. I went to bed thinking I'd add shallow supers but upon awaking I've decided to buy some deeps instead- it will make brood nest management and hive management in general that much simpler in the long run. I think I'll try shallows on a couple of boxes anyways just to prove to myself how right I am. Then I can say to myself "I told you so!"

George-

[Robert Hawkins]

Great decision, George. I think I might have gone all mediums. twenty extra shallows and deeps could have been used for honey and covering feeders. I always need more honey shallows. I feed, when necessary, with the gallon pickle jars.

My extractor is home made and only takes shallows. All of this has a part in such a decision. So only you can decide for your beeyards. Good Luck.

Hawk

[WG Bee Farm]

IMO, you have made the right decision. Deeps can be used for brood or honey.
Don't forget the beekeepers friend. Duct Tape.
I have used it many a times to get me through and always keep a couple of rolls with me at all times.

[George Fergusson]

WG Bee said, and Robert Hawkins agreed:

> IMO, you have made the right decision.

Oh HooRah, FINALLY I make the right decision! I just finished nailing together 20 of 25 deeps that I picked up this morning... ran outa nails smile.gif Living 7 miles down the road from a beehive factory is a blessing smile.gif

And Yes! Duct Tape! Got a roll, already used some the day I brought them home on a nasty gaping hole in the corner of one hive. I've since replaced the box.

Tommorow paint.. and at night, assemble frames and wire the little suckers... then foundation arrives end of the week.. what did I do before I kept bees?

Thanks for the help. I think I'll wander up and commune with the girls.

George-
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George & Nancy Fergusson
Sweet Time Apiary
Whitefield Maine
"If you can't fix it with duct tape,
screw it, it ain't broke"