Oh crap...

[Meadow Stone Farm]

This is our first year beekeeping and it's been umm, interesting. I spent alot of time researching and building a top bar hive. We ordered packaged bees from Bolling Bee Farms but since tehy are running so behind schedule we decided to see if any local bee keepers could get us bees sooner. Well a local apiary sold me a nucleus hive. I brought it home fed them, placed the hive right under the top bar so they could acclimate. They stayed there two days. We went to move teh frames into the top bar hive tonight and OOOPPPSSS! The frames were too deep and stuck up so far we couldn't get the cover on. The only way we could get the frames into the hive was to rotate them 90 degrees. So now I have 2 brood and 3 honey frames stacked (I put wood spacers between them) perpendicular to the top bars. Not to mention that the bees have total access to the under side of the cover now. So now my question:

What is the best course of action (assuming the move didn't destroy the queen and the hive doesn't leave)
1. Leave them in the hive and see what happens.
2. Build another TBH (quickly) that will accomodate the frames.
3. Build a Langstrom and move them into it (I can always put the package bees into the TBH).

What do you guys think?

[BULLSEYE BILL]

3

[Meadow Stone Farm]

Thanks for the quick reply Bill.

This is just not my day....the power to the barn (where my power tools are) has developed a short. I isolated the short to the power line connecting the barn to the house (which is of course underground). To add to the problem it's pouring rain outside and night time. What kind of time frame are we talking about here for moving the bees? The guy I got the nuc from would probably be willing to sell me a hive. Of course I've done very little research on the Langstrom. Do I start off with just a brood box, or do I give them a super right away? I think I have bad Kharma today....oh crap, oh crap oh crap....

[MIKI]

There is a real simple solution to your problem. attach wood to the top of your tbh until you raise it enough to accomodate the frames and the topbars over them. now wire the frames to the bars use frame spacers so you maintain the proper space. Now feed and leave them alone for a couple of weeks. they will comb every thing in tight, next season you can rotate the frames out. They will build new comb on an empty bar put right next to the brood nest pretty fast as long as there is a flow or you are feeding. No need to abandon your TBH.

[Ross]

Why can't they stay in the nuc for awhile longer? You could also cut out the comb in the frames and tie it to the top bars, then shake the bees into the TBH.

[Michael Bush]

I'm with ross. Why not put them back in the nuc. The current situation won't work, so you need to do something now. You could make swarm catching frames that fit the top bar hive and cut the brood out and wire it into the swarm catching frames. But putting them in a Langstroth deep box would seem the best for the moment.

[Meadow Stone Farm]

Thank you all so much for the suggestions. Oh and Miki, I lived in Germany, going to college and even worked there for a time after graduation. I absolutely loved it. I lived Frieburg. Anyway...building the wall up wouldn't work so well since the roof is pitched (you can see pics of it at www.meadowstonefarm.com). (http://www.meadowstonefarm.com).) However wiring the comb tot he bars did occur to me. We just thought the whole experience was so traumatic for the bees as it was that we wanted to get them in the hive and closed up as soon as possible. The only complication is that the brood frames are plastic, but that may not be too much of an issue. The queen is not clipped or marked and, this being our first experience keeping bees, we can't tell her from a drone. The keeper I got the nuc from even told me that the queen is smaller and darker and is very hard for even him to pick out. My biggest fear is that she was killed during the transitiion. Also two clusters of bees remained in the nuc after we moved the frames. We tried to brush them out into the hive but they wouldn't budge. I hope she isn't in one of those clusters and, if she is, I hope she moves into the TBH. We will try and attmept wiring the comb when the rain has let up tomorrow.
Also Ross- the keepr who I got he nuc from told me not to keep the bees in the nuc for more than few days since there was a significant amount of brood ready to emerge and the population would double quickly. He implied that this would be bad if left in the nuc.

[Meadow Stone Farm]

It's dark here now, plus it's raining. Should I wait till morning to transfer them back or is sooner better?

[ChellesBees]

Wait till morning. Beekeeping after dark is not a good thing.

[Ross]

I haven't tried it, but from the stories I hear, you'll only inspect one hive after dark smile.gif

[Meadow Stone Farm]

bill, just checked out your website...awesome pictures. annemarie and i still have so much to learn. i brought the nuc home on friday and we sat and watched them for hours. i saw a foreign worker try to enter the hive. it was decapitated by a guard. i actually picked up the carcass and ran to show annemarie...i guess we're just weird people but the little guys are fascinating. the bees we got (russians) are so gentle. i was out checking on the two clumps left in the nuc box and tried to coax them into the hive. i didn't even bother putting on gloves, they don't seem to have any interest in coming after me. they just stick their abdomens in the air and start flapping their wings like crazy, not sure what that means but once one starts they all follow in the same motion.

[Ross]

You may well have a queen in the nuc box. Have you tried giving the box a sharp rap on the hive to shake them into TBH?

[Meadow Stone Farm]

i tried knocking, brushing and gently nudging with cardboard. they are strong little guys. i put the nuc box on it's side in front of the entrance of the tbh. i reasoned that if she as in the nuc box she'd move into the tbh, i checked the clusters out pretty closely and i only saw drones and workers. i'll know more in the morning. it's quite cool here, especially at night so they may have been clustering for warmth. i think our best plan of action at this point is to wire the combs to the bars and try to move the bees back into the tbh. we're kind of opposed to langstrom hives, for reasons i won't get into here, so even if i made one for this nuc it would only be temporary. in hind sight i would have been better off just brushing them all into the hiv, treating the nuc like a package.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>in hind sight i would have been better off just brushing them all into the hiv, treating the nuc like a package.

That is one option but it would set them back loosing the brood.

If the topbars on the frames are the right thickness to match your TBH, how about carefully cutting the frames length to match, break off the endbars and trim the comb to fit?

Most nucs are on old dark comb and is fairly sturdy, and well attached to the frame.

Perhaps you could shake the bees off the frame and use a smooth hand saw to make your trim cuts. A pair of dykes to cut the wires, and a sharp serrated knife to trim the comb. After you have two frames fitted, shake all the bees into the tbh and trim the other frames or cut the honey out and leave on the floor of the tbh for them to move up and use. Maybe squish the honey out in a small pan for them to suck up. Leave the wax in there too, they will recycle it.

[Meadow Stone Farm]

Just an update for everyone, we did our surgery this morning. We cut the plastic brood combs first and tied them onto bars. I tried to minimize brood destruction, carefully cutting around any cells that looked like drone or queens (can't tell the difference yet). The honey frames are wooden and much easier to modify. We actually just took the bottom and part of the side frames off, trimmed the comb and dropped them in place of the bars (didn't tie them to a bar). I put all the trimmings in the bottom of the hive on the "hang-out" grid. We brushed the bees from the nuc back in and closed it up. All told the procedure took a little bit over an hour. Unfortunately because of the slightly lower hang of the honey bars the bees can get up into the cover. We'll see what happens I guess. I placed a divider board halfway down the hive, so they have about 10 bars to work with. If anyone's interested I can post some construction photos. I probably made the hive way too complicated with adjustable ventilation, multi-laminated walls floor grid and pitched cover. Live and learn I guess.

[Michael Bush]

If you lost the queen, you'll find queen cells. Queen cells open straight down. When they are capped they point straight down. Drone cells point straight sideways. Queen cells look like a peanut with the small end down. Drone cells look like a bullet with the round bullet pointing sideways.

[Meadow Stone Farm]

There were capped queen cells but I can't imagine they drew them out over night. I put the brood comb pieces I trimmed off on the bottom of the hive and the bees seemed to tend to them. I'm not sure if they will continue to use these cells or discard them once the larvae emerge. I loaded two feeders inside and will leave the hive undisturbed for a week or so and see what they do.

[Michael Bush]

>There were capped queen cells but I can't imagine they drew them out over night.

They won't cap them overnight, but they will draw them overnight.