Butt joint boxes

[Rob S]

Anyone have experience with butt joint supers?

They are easier to make than box joints. I'm not planning to take these hives to California for the almond rush...just place them one time in the Missouri Ozarks next March/April. With these modern glues I'm thinking they will hold up.

[iddee]

They are fine if you don't pick them up when full. If you hold opposite corners when full of honey and lift, your hands will come together as the box goes flat.

[Michael Bush]

As long as you glue them and screw them with deck screws they work fine. I have made hundreds of them. I would not depend on nails alone to hold them together.

[pahvantpiper]

I made a simple jig that I use with my table saw. very simple and cheap but I can pump out finger joint (box joint) boxes pretty fast. In the long run you'll be happier with the box joint IMO.

-Rob

[dgl1948]

I like Lap Joints. They are easy to make, stong and leave less end grain to the elements.

[Rob S]

Thanks for the info...This is very good news to me. RS

[HarryVanderpool]

Here is how I fix butt orlap joint boxes:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/Almonds2005039.jpg

Here is the final product:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/DSC00250.jpg

Problem solved!
:D

[ September 10, 2006, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: HarryVanderpool ]

[wayacoyote]

I too use lap-joints, strong glue, and ample nails. the glue holds well enough, I'm told, but the nails/ screws will take the sheering forces. And I fret over painting the end grain and nail heads. MB would scoff at that I'm betting. After all he does "lazy beekeeping." smile.gif But if I get an extra week over him out of a peice of equipment, I'll be able to rub his face in the benifits of spending 2 weeks at painting!

For the record, I cut the lap joints on the same blade height as the frame rest cuts. I just move the fence to give me 3/4 inch of lap. I have a system when I do it that minimizes how many adjustments I have to do to the fence and blade depth that allows me to be quite effecient at cutting out the rests and laps. I just can't remember it right off.

Waya

[Dennis Arterburn]

I build lap box supers, I predrill and use deck screws, then after assembly I drill and glue 3 dowell rods 1 an 1/2 inch long 3 per each corner seems to work very very well. but I buy my frames. all i use are medium supers
dennis

[Dennis Arterburn]

I buld all of my supers with lap joint so much faster and easier......I predrill and use deck screws, a quality exterior wood glue. When assembled I drill 3 holes at each lap 1/4 x 1 1/2 and glue dowell rods in makes a very strong box.
all I use are medium supers and buy the frames.
I think the dowells make a hugh difference in the strength of the box.
Dennis

[wade]

I've been using medium boxes I made with lap joints and they seem fine this first year, but I might have a different assessment after a couple of seasons. I wouldn't try it with a deep.

Harry, I've seen those pics before somewhere- and you cheated there buddy, those are box joints. :eek:

[HarryVanderpool]

Look at the pic again, Wade.
I only cheated 50%.
I've been culling out the old boxes and worthless lap-joint boxes over the last couple of years.
Still have several to go, I'm sure!
:cool:

[George Fergusson]

Geez Harry, those boxes looked pretty good to me! Here's a picture of what I consider to be "junk" woodenware:

http://www.sweettimeapiary.com/images/lotta_bees.jpg

smile.gif

[Michael Bush]

I don't think I've ever thrown out a box. Cut them down to the next smaller size, yes. Put metal on the corners, yes. Put new rabbets in, yes. Put old tin can lids over holes, yes. But burn them? No.

[iddee]

I give them to people like MB. smile.gif
I do not like hives with entrances I did not purposely give them.

[HarryVanderpool]

>>I do not like hives with entrances I did not purposely give them.<<

I'm right in there with you, iddee.
If one employs, Apiguard, Apilife-VAR, formic, Menthol, etc.... a tight box is very important.
I once purchaced extra frames for culling. Now I go ahead and buy extra boxes as well.
We get comments all the time about how sharp our hives look.
The bees look good as well in part because the treatments are uniform.

:cool:

[HarryVanderpool]

>>>I don't think I've ever thrown out a box. Cut them down to the next smaller size, yes. Put metal on the corners, yes. Put new rabbets in, yes. Put old tin can lids over holes, yes. But burn them? No.<<<
If thats the level of quality that you choose for your operation; so be it. :eek:
We present our bees proudly!
:D

[mobees]

My Dad burns my damaged/old boxes in the wood stove. Also the black brood comb is good for starting fires.

[SilverFox]

;) Hey harry; in the first picture I noticed a number of 'box' joints with the lap on the bottom of the stack, what happened you get the two mixed up?? ;) (at least four boxes with box joints)

[SilverFox]

George it appears the bees thought so also :D

[randydrivesabus]

butt joints should hold just fine especially if you use good glue and screw them together and clamp them until the glue sets and dries. if you've ever made a large flat board by glueing up narrow boards you know what i mean. the screws may actually be superfluous.

[Kelbee]

I've made several mediums using lapp joints with gorilla glue and predrilled decks screws and they feel every bit as sturdy as some commercial box joint boxes I have, but so much easier to make. Attaching the handles to the short sides only will put minimal stress on the joints even with frames fully loaded with honey.
This is my first year so I can't testify on their long term performance, but I believe they'll weather much better than the box joint. We know that wood rots at places where pieces come together and moisture collects. Flat, horizontal contact areas that can't drain are the worst. Box joints have MUCH more of this vulnerable contact area and is therefore MUCH more susceptable to rotting. Box joints can only endure by protecting them with a liberal coat of paint and frequent reapplications to get a long life. Using lapp joints explains why MB can get by without paint.

[Fusion_power]

The key with just about any woodenware that will be exposed to weather is to use a high quality exterior glue. Addition of 4 inch screws ensures durability.

I've made my own woodenware for years using a simple lap joint. I could just as easily make a jig for finger joints but don't see any reason to do so. The real keys to good woodenware are using quality wood such as old growth cypress, using a good quality expoxy glue, treating with a preservative such as copper napthenate, and painting with high quality outdoor paint.

Fusion

[shylock3]

Usually the edges are what wears the fastest. I took some old supers and trimmed the edges on a table saw. I then made feeders out of them, they work as good as store bought.
I made some mediums out of some wood I had, didn't use screws just glue and panneling nails on the butt joints, you got me worried now, I think I'll go back and put screws in them.

[RogerC]

How about biscuit joints? Those that use 'em reckon they never break at the joint.

[busybguy]

good gawd---don't toss away those old boxes. I put them on the tablesaw and cut them into two inch sections for putting on top of the hives to treat for mites with formic acid pads.

[busybguy]

good gawd---don't toss away those old boxes. I put them on the tablesaw and cut them into two inch sections for putting on top of the hives to treat for mites with formic acid pads.

[RonS]

Hey, guys, which came first; the carpentry or the beekeeping? You folks are impressive to those of us whose only carpentry skills are writing a check with a self-sharpened pencil.

[SilverFox]

:eek: They let you use a sharpened pencil :eek:

[Todd Zeiner]

I was swinging a hammer by age 8. Started helping build houses at 13. Now a fulltime carpenter. Started keeping bees 4 years ago.
The two skills are very much an asset to each other.

[Michael Bush]

>We get comments all the time about how sharp our hives look.

I've never gotten a comment on how sharp mine look... ;)

[George Fergusson]

>Hey, guys, which came first; the carpentry or the beekeeping?

Beekeeping defintely leads to carpentry. If you didn't have the carpentry skills to start with, you develop them quickly enough. I don't believe it works the other way around as I know lots of carpenters that don't care a whit about bees.

[MichaelW]

Reduce or close the "Official" entrance when additional entrances present themselves.