What is? - Raw Honey

[mcgator]

We were at a store in Omaha, NE and here on the shelf is "Raw Honey". It was this milky light brown color from crystallization etc. and would appeal to some I guess but not to us. It did command a higher price as well. Next to it from the same company was "Local Honey" bottled in the bears and form that most folks are used to seeing.

The NHB definitions for "Raw Honey" are below....

8.Raw Honey: Honey as it exists in the beehive or as obtained by extraction, settling or straining without adding heat.

8a. Commercially Raw Honey: Honey as obtained by minimum processing. This product is often labeled as raw honey.

I've sat through some pretty healthy discussions on what Raw honey is supposed to be and will have to agree that the jury is still out.....but maybe this Raw Honey that this vendor is peddling should be changed to "Honey that sat on the shelf for awhile". I just wouldn't advertise it as raw honey but would reliquefy it at a the bare minimum temperature and then refer to it as pure honey. But that's just what I'd do.

Don't beat me up too bad on this subject.....but we've always had just "Pure Honey" for three generations of beekeepers with maybe the word Clover thrown in there at times. The use of my grandfather's familar name on the label made it local.

[peggjam]

"8.Raw Honey: Honey as it exists in the beehive or as obtained by extraction, settling or straining without adding heat."

The without adding heat refers to not adding enough heat to pastureizing it. You can heat it enough to liquidify it, and still classifiy it as raw honey.


"Honey that this vendor is peddling should be changed to "Honey that sat on the shelf for awhile"."

It proably was liquid when he set up for display, just didn't sell quick enough. Raw honey to me means just the way it comes from the hive, strained to remove excess particules, jarred and sold. But I also liquidify when needed.

[Dick Allen]

I have some Russian customers who prefer crystallized (crystallized, as in coarse crystals, not creamed) honey over liquid honey.

Works good for me. A lot less work. They show up at my house with their containers and I scoop the crystallized honey out of the bucket for them.

[cphilip]

I think as a marketing tool to the unknowing that the term Raw is possibly a turn off. To the older generation and health food nuts its not. So it may not be as good a general label seller as the term Natural or Local. To at least a segment of the market.

To me its Honey that is not patuerized or treated in any way. But to others the term Raw may mean its potentialy dangerous in some way. Mistakenly so but... impressions are everything.

[tecumseh]

peggyjam adds:
The without adding heat refers to not adding enough heat to pastureizing it. You can heat it enough to liquidify it, and still classifiy it as raw honey.

tecumseh adds:
it is my understanding that just about NO honey is heated to the temperature required to pastureize (212 degrees for a specified time I would assume) the product.

[peggjam]

"it is my understanding that just about NO honey is heated to the temperature required to pastureize (212 degrees for a specified time I would assume) the product."

You ever seen that Sue Bee Honey that doesn't crystize? I think I read somewhere it's because it had be pastureized.....waiting for the hammer to drop....LOL


"I think as a marketing tool to the unknowing that the term Raw is possibly a turn off. To the older generation and health food nuts its not. So it may not be as good a general label seller as the term Natural or Local. To at least a segment of the market."

I aggree with that.

[naturebee]

Honey is easily damaged with too much heat, heating to 212 degrees would damage the honey.

To pasteurize honey, it only required that you heat to kill the yeasts.
And this can be done by heating to:

* 160 F for one minute
* or 140 F for 30 minutes,
* or some variable between the two points.

Sometimes heating to 110 to 120 F will slow the granulation process.

Most references describe 'Raw honey' as:

* unprocessed
* not heated
* and not filtered.

[BjornBee]

Joe, Just to add to the confusion, I think it should be pointed out that "Not filtered" does not mean "not strained". My food license requires straining as they said they would not allow bee parts and wax chunks in honey sold at markets. I just have never seen the difference pointed out what straining is, compared to filter, when talking about mesh sizes? Anyone know some standard?

[mcgator]

I've heard that Sue Bee heats their honey to 160 for 24 hrs. But you know how rumors go. With folks like Sue Bee....when their honey comes in on the truck in barrels, that honey could be considered "Raw Honey" simply because of the way it came in. They don't what kind of bacteria or contaminates it could contain and be termed as Raw Honey in that its the beginning of their pasteurizing process. This raw honey (before pasteurizing) could contain harmful residue from the barrels, sulphathiazole, tetracycline, phenol, bees wax, bee parts, etc. You don't know what's in it. Now that's raw honey. Furthermore, I had always thought that pasturizing a product that pretained mostly to milk and dairy products to prevent fermantation. Wikipedia has Pasteurization (or pasteurisation) as the "process of heating food for the purpose of killing harmful organisms such as bacteria, viruses, protozoa, molds, and yeasts". This seems to be a long way from heating honey to a point that it increases the shelf life regarding crystallization. But until another term is used to describe the heating of honey to reduce the crystallization process, I'll just keep using pasteurization.

I do agree with Peggjam that using raw honey as a marketing tool is a turn off. I'll stick to pure, local ......makes more sense.

[peggjam]

"This raw honey (before pasteurizing) could contain harmful residue from the barrels, sulphathiazole, tetracycline, phenol, bees wax, bee parts, etc. You don't know what's in it. Now that's raw honey."

Makes me want to run right out and buy some SueBee..LOL!

"My food license requires straining as they said they would not allow bee parts and wax chunks in honey sold at markets."

This just makes sense, I wouldn't want my honey to contain bee parts and "other" goodies...ah..but think of the increased protien value!LOL

[MichaelW]

RAW
EXTREME
PURE... TO THE MAX DUDE!

FOR THOSE WHOM REQUIRE LIFE IN ITS MOST
undressed, unfashioned, unformed, unfried,
ungraded, unpasteurized, unprepared, unprocessed, unrefined, unsorted, unstained,
untreated, virgin
FORM

BUY HONEY IN THE RAW TODAY!

[MichaelW]

seriously, I don't heat my honey and strain it through one layer of the nylon filter cloth. I probably will go with "unheated, not overly filtered" in the marketing.

[DCH]

We keep ours "raw" - unheated in any way, to start.
It is acutally quite appealing to many folks who stop by for a bottle. It just seems tobe a matter of how you sell it, I guess. We'll end up heating a batch once the raw stuff crystalizes so customers have a choice - and we tell them what they need to do when their raw stuff crystallizes, too.

Now, I have recently been informed by a vegan that our honey is not truly "raw" because we use an electric uncapping knife when we extract. *sigh*

[Chef Isaac]

I agree that the word Raw has killed the meaning of marketing Raw Honey in American Society. Due to the potentially hazardous "Raw" chicken and other poultry. The word "raw" gets a bad rep.

By no means is honey that has granulated not Raw. It is still what it is... it has go through the natural process just like a green bell pepper has turned orange and than to red. Liquid honey granulates... how does that make it not raw???

I do think we need to couple the word raw and educate the consumer about the differances. Its the same game.... local honey versus commerical or store honey.

[bee happy]

Folks were almost beating down my door for my Pure, Raw Honey. From the extractor it went through a kitchen sieve, then through a layer of cheese cloth and into the jars. Processed at room temperature in early August. I stressed the fact that there was minimum processing involved. That was the primary selling point. I had a small roadside stand that got many tourists of all ages and most were thrilled to find it.

[Dwight]

When I extract my honey I run it from the extractor through a double sieve and into the bucket. I then pour from the bucket through the double sieve lined with one layer of nylon filter cloth. I don't heat it at all. I consider the resulting product Raw Honey. It crystallizes sooner than heated Honey but I put liquifeying labels on my jars.
There is a commercial operation here in Vermont who advertises crystallized honey as "Raw Honey" at $12.00 per lb.!!!

[Chef Isaac]

dont even start me on the vegan classification crap.

[SilverFox]

DCH; :D Your VEGAN would love my honey, cold capping knife, extracted and gravity drip filtered then bottled, no heat used at all (maybe warmed just enough to get it to flow easily).

[ August 04, 2006, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: SilverFox ]

[livetrappingbymatt]

guy's check out realy raw honey co. she sells a lot of it and the story i hear is it must have cappings on the top of every package.also only golden rod wanted?
bob

[JohnK and Sheri]

Many, I'd say at least 20-30%, of our customers use the term "Raw" in a positive manner and buy ours because it is. I think they are fairly well informed as to the accepted definition and are not wanting "that cooked stuff" they get in the grocery store. I use the term "Raw" in marketing and some folks do ask what it means, but it is not a 'turn-off' to any of them. I think they are smart enough to know the difference between honey and chicken.

>>>>>This raw honey (before pasteurizing) could contain harmful residue from the barrels, sulphathiazole, tetracycline, phenol, bees wax, bee parts, etc. You don't know what's in it. Now that's raw honey.<<<<<
Some of those things people pay extra for, lol.
Pasteurization does not take any of that stuff out.
The above contaminants can be in honey you buy anywhere, from any honey producer. I've seen folks extracting in open air garages with insects, not just bees smile.gif , and birds and various critters running around, then bottling into used unsterilized 5 gallon buckets, which are then used to fill used mayonnaise jars.
As to the cleanliness and/or possibility of contaminants in honey, this has nothing to do with whether it is in a drum or a 5 gallon pail, but in how it is handled. I will probably get flamed for this, but I would hazard a guess that the larger operators, because they have dedicated space and equipment have, in general and with exceptions, a more hygenic product.

We sell the majority of our honey wholesale to big packers, including Sue Bee on occasion, and the big packers all do extensive testing for moisture, bacterial levels and contaminants, especially since 9/11. Their heating is done primarily to facilitate blending and to retard the crystalization process.
Sheri

[DCH]

"(maybe warmed just enough to get it to flow easily)"

Ah-ah! tsk, tsk, tsk. *Artifically* warmed won't cut it with her... smile.gif

[dcross]

<<Artifically* warmed won't cut it with her... >>

Point your nose to the ceiling, and inform her that REAL vegans don't eat honey:)

[SilverFox]

:D Nothing artifical 'bout the way I warm my honey ( ;) [oops not here]) lol, I rub the container briskly with a flannel cloth :D , Dang good exercise. :D Except when I use 5 gallon buckets, WHEW, it takes awhile. :D

[RAlex]

I cant not put in my two cents here...lol... Had a customer ask for really raw honey. She told me she paid 5-10.00 per pound for honey that containts cappings pollen, and propolis, I assume she also bought some bee parts. So I told her I extract and strain as I dont want parts in my honey but since she would like some offered a deal on a pail(60 pounds) of really raw honey for only 3.00 per pound.I did check out really raw honey dot com and seems that 5# is 72.00 if memory serves me right. I just have to find those customers who have deep pockets..lol...Rick

[DCH]

Last someone asked for "really raw honey", it was from a student of a nearby liberal arts college. Aparrently, he wanted to try to make some mead and wanted all the nuts & bolts left in... I'm not sure how "bee part" flavored mead tastes, but I'll pass for now. smile.gif