Checker boaring question?

[Ronnie Elliott]

I went into two of my hives this afternoon. The first one, I caught from a feral swarm. They had capped brood cells, and open cells with white larva, that hadn't been capped. I didn't actually see any eggs, but was satified with what I found. The free hive I just got from a friend, that is no longer interested in his bees from Ft. Worth, TX., were very calm and easy to work, they must not have been the africanized type, because they didn't go bezerk when I opened the hive. They didn't have any capped brood, or eggs, but had plenty of honey. My question is that both hives had 5- frames covered with bees, the remaining 5-frames, were full drawn, but no bees, no honey, no capped larva or eggs in the upper hive, the bottom hive was full drawn, with some pollen, and a few bees. Should I checker board, or just leave alone?

[TwT]

I would leave it alone until you are sure it is going to stay warm, if you checkerboard it now and then have a cold snap, they will cluster and might not cover the larva or brood they have now. I may be wrong but thats what I would do (leave them alone for now). still have a few month's of winter, might not were you are, the pro's will answer and I'll see if im right ;)

[Grant]

I don't know what the weather will hold for you in TX, so take the following with a grain of salt:

I would pull two frames from the outside edges of the box (I presume them to be drawn and empty) and place them in the middle of the brood chamber (the five frames of brood) with one of the existins frames of brood in between these two new frames.

While this isn't technically checkerboarding, it will give the queen a warm spot to lay eggs.

Grant
Jackson, MO

[Michael Bush]

Pesrsonally with only five frames of bees, I'd leave them alone until you see the brood nest expanding well.

[peggjam]

"Pesrsonally with only five frames of bees, I'd leave them alone until you see the brood nest expanding well."

I aggree with MB, if you spread the broodnest out the queen might lay, but then the bees might not be able to cover the brood during cold nights and it would chill. Wait till you have some stable weather, where the lows arn't so low that the cluster has to contract to keep warm.

[wfarler]

I've been trying to understand the checkerboarding approach. I've read Walt's web site twice and the various posts but I guess someone may have to show me. I thought the checkerboarding was just the boxes ABOVE the broodnest. Are you also saying you manipulate the brood frames to move empty comb into the middle of the brood nest.

Also, the opinions on flipping the brood boxes seems conflicting. If George Imirie were here he'd probably be blasting me for even asking but should we be reversing along with the checkerboarding?

[MichaelW]

I think,

Opening up the broodnest with frames done before or with checkerboarding.... is a blending of ideas using concepts discussed in Walt's checkerboarding writings.

Reversing can be benificial and in line with the concept of Walts writings if done to open up the area above the broodnest with empty cells. In Walt's papers, he talks about different configuration scenarios. Sometimes the hive dosen't come through the winter in the ideal configuration for checkerboarding so other options come up with the concepts in mind.

Reversing is in line with the concepts in some cases.
One example of this not being in line with Walts ideas would be if the bottom super has alot of honey in it and you put it on top, you are not helping.

Basically,
Provide room for the queen to lay. Just because there are 3 or 4 empty combs to the side of the broodnest, dosen't mean she will use it.

Break up, or don't allow, a cap of stores above the broodnest.

You must encourage the hive into thinking it needs to store more stores for winter instead of going into swarm mode.

anyone correct me, still figuring it out too.

[ February 01, 2006, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]

[Michael Bush]

>I've been trying to understand the checkerboarding approach. I've read Walt's web site twice and the various posts but I guess someone may have to show me. I thought the checkerboarding was just the boxes ABOVE the broodnest.

You are correct. Walt's concept is to fool the bees to NOT move into swarm preperation and stay in buildup because they are fooled into thinking they don't have enough stores yet.

>Are you also saying you manipulate the brood frames to move empty comb into the middle of the brood nest.

That's a different method. I guess I'd call it "opening the brood nest."

>Also, the opinions on flipping the brood boxes seems conflicting. If George Imirie were here he'd probably be blasting me for even asking but should we be reversing along with the checkerboarding?

No. Don't do it with checkerboarding. Swapping brood boxes accomplishes the same thing except it makes the bees rearrange the entire brood nest in the process. Do one or the other. I don't swap brood boxes.

>Opening up the broodnest with frames done before or with checkerboarding.... is a blending of ideas using concepts discussed in Walt's checkerboarding writings.

Walt brought up the idea of combining the two after someone misunderstood checkerboarding (or confused it with opening the brood nest) and put in starter strips in the brood nest. The observation was that there was white wax far before there usually would be. In Walts model this is a sign, at that time of year, of "establishment" mode. Like a new swarm trying to get the brood nest built. "Establishment" mode would also prevent swarming and possibly get the bees ahead on their schedule for getting a honey crop. When doing the same thing with foundation you usually don't get the white wax, instead the bees often reuse some old wax from somewhere to build the new comb in the brood nest.

>Break up, or don't allow, a cap of stores above the broodnest.

This is the key element of "checkboarding".

>You must encourage the hive into thinking it needs to store more stores for winter instead of going into swarm mode.

This is the result of "checkerboarding".

>anyone correct me, still figuring it out too.

Sounds like you're getting it.

[wfarler]

thanks, this is very helpful Separates the two concepts. Also explains some of the diagrams which show only one deep for the broodnest whereas many others insisted that you needed 2 deeps or 3 mediums for the broodnest.


Now what is the point of view on checkerboarding on buildup. The articles seemed to imply that the colony strength would build up rapidly, I assume due to the fact the brood nest was not crowded by stores.

Also, if the queen move up into the checkerboarded area above just leave the brood alone and continue to make checkerboarded space available above?

[wayacoyote]

Wfarler,
Do you have Walt's Nectar Management book? It's not very expensive and being about 60 pages and straight from the Horse's mouth, will really give you a good start. He has images and graphs that will help. I still had a number of questions after reading, but I was able to make them specific and refered to page numbers. Walt is very eager to help when he can.

For the meiger price of the book, it should pay for itself in hive production very quickly.

Waya

[Carolina-Family-Farm]

wayacoyote"

Where could someone find a copy of Nectar Management ?

Thanks

[MichaelW]

PM beesource user
Walts-son-in-law
you can find him in the directory

[Michael Bush]

Try sending a private message (PM) to Walts-son-in-law