overwintering nucs

[BerkeyDavid]

Hi all
I have five - 5 frame medium nucs, new queens have emerged and are laying. Trying to overwinter these so they will be ready to roll next spring.
Is it better to keep them in the 5 frame configuration and pack them with honey or try to expand them to a 10 frame configuration by adding bees and stores?
I plan to wrap them and add insulated tops as per the articles this year in ABJ. It seems like it would be better to keep them in 5 frames because of the smaller space to heat, but on the other hand the amount of stores in a five frame is awfully small.
Has anyone any experience with this?
thanks!

[Michael Bush]

I keep experimenting on nucs. My current theory is it's better to keep them in a minimum size and try to feed them well enough to get to spring. I'm tempted to do candy lids this year to prevent starvation instead of bigger boxes.

[Jeffrey Todd]

David,
I like the idea of wintering nucs in med chambers, which is what I will be doing this "winter". A smaller population of bees will consume less honey, of course, and you would probably have breaks in your winter in which you could give them extra stores if necessary.

[BerkeyDavid]

Jeff

A medium 10 frame or 5 frame?

[CWBees]

I have 2 Russian nucs with 2 five deep frame supers each. I don't think I will try to inulate them. Has anyone else overwintered nucs in this configuration?

[Dick Allen]

In the past I've overwintered a few 5 frame nucs in both those two-piece plastic/foam nucs from BetterBee and also in home-made wooden nucs insulated with an inch of styrofoam outside and wrapped in tarpaper. I'm experimenting too. Haven't done a great many but I guess maybe a bit more than half of those attempted have made it through. This year I requeened some hives and used the original (still this year's) queens for making some 5 frame nucs. Spring will tell how successful they'll be.

[Chef Isaac]

I love this topic because it is all about trial and error.

I am going with two methods.

The first method is a deep split in half with 4 frames on each side with a feed bag for an inner cover. I will place these on top of a big hives inner cover as soo nas the bees stop flying (october or so). I will continue to feed them heavily until then. I will place a 1 inch stro cover on top of the feed bag and I might wrap... not sure though.

The second method is a 5 frame nuc with a built in hive top feeder. I will close the bottom entrance and let them go through the top entrance which is not a direct entrance. It is interesting.

I love this topic!!!!!

[PFA]

I love this topic as well.
Been reading the other posts on this topic on-and-off thru the summer and plan on trying it next year (wasn't ready and didn't have the time this year). One question I keep mulling is when to set up the nucs in Central New York? Any ideas or exprience from others?

[mwjohnson]

Yup,good topic.

PFA;I think for me toward the end of july.

I have to come to terms with the "how-to" part myself.

I made some splits this year with the intention of trying to overwinter them,the the third week of july,with 3 frames capped brood/bees,2 frames of honey/pollen,5 frames of foundation,in a deep box over a screened inner cover.

They have almost finshed drawing out the outer frames,and I have put them on their own bottom.I have grown kinda fond of one of them in particular,and don't really want to experiment on that one to much. smile.gif

Lately,I have thought a lot about trying to winter them in a 2 or 3 story,5 frame nucs,to make accessing the stores easier for them,stacked and wrapped tight together,but still trying to decide myself.

[newbee 101]

I have been thinking about my nuc's also. I have them in 3 5 frame nuc bodies with a hive top feeder(empty) on top. They have not moved in to the 3rd nuc body. I am going to wrap them with 3 inch blue styrofoam. See what happens. These nucs were started from 2 shallow frames of brood and bees and a swarm cell each. It took all year to fill 10 frames. :(
http://www.acmepainting.com/nucs.jpg

[Jeffrey Todd]

David,

I use all mediums and the nucs will be all 9-10 frames each. Of course, what works in my area may not in Ohio. (too bad about that football game tonight!)

[Mitch]

I am going the other way from Dave.We got the Q cells together.I am useing Deep frames. I started in 4 and 5 frame nucs,they are now in 10 frame deeps.Most now have 3 frames of sealed brood.I plan on putting them in beemax hives and putting a medium on honey on the top for winter store if they look like they need it in october.I agree this is a good topic and we will se what we have to report back in the spring.

[Chef Isaac]

This topic is great!!!

I made all the nucs up from packages that I knew would not make it in deeps. I am hoping that using a deep box seperated into 2 4 forame nucs will do the trick.

I just need to find out what to do... if I should wrap or something like this. I also need to make a wind break.

I think a lot of hives die because of the wind exposure. We will see.

[Dick Allen]

Chef, some people place their 2 four-frame or five-frame nucs in a single deep box directly on top of a full size hive separated by a piece of 1/4 or 3/8 inch plywood. Then the entire unit is wrapped. That's one option you can consider.

[Mitch]

Ok i have some things i am thinking about.

Ok based on a 3 to 5 frame deep nuc.

Given the winter in your area what makes a nuc fail?

1)sarvation
2)to small of cluster and they freeze out
3) do to being small or weak pests and diseise

Ok some of my thoughts on what happens here in Oh.

the winter here is normaly not bitter cold and no huge amounts of snow.It is just very long damp and miserable.The temps can very alot from 0 to 50.

Being the bees need to be in a cluster for 5 months give or take a week or 2.It seems to me one needs a larger cluster just for the fact of normal die off from the age of bees.And if to many bees die off and there is the 0 cold snap thet cold will kill them.Along with that goes food plenty of food for the long length of time and when it warms up and the bees get a bit more active.any thoughts would be well taken.

Thanks Bob

[Michael Bush]

Here, in Southeastern Nebraska, if they have no heat source and are not grouped together, they seem to die from getting stuck in one place or they just freeze as evidenced by a frozen cluster of bees with no food touching the cluster or a frozen cluster of bees touching the cluster (respectively). This usually happens when we get a week or two of -10 F or more.

If I put them where they get the "exhaust" from other hives, they tend to die from condensation and wet as evidenced by the moldy wet dead bees and icicle on the lid. This usually happens in warmer weather (above 0 F).

[peggjam]

I think we need to throw out most of the old ideas about beekeeping, and look at how feral hives survive, and in particular, what kind of area the most successful hives occupy.

[BerkeyDavid]

Mitch and I have been talking a lot about this. I am thinking that maybe insulation does more than keep the hive warm. It also keeps the hive cold. THe killer around here maybe the winter warm ups as much as the winter cold.

If you can maintain a steadier temp, even if it is cold, then it will keep them in cluster and stop them from trying to expand too much during a winter warm up.

Consequently insulating the hive with foam / reflective wrap may be better than wrapping with tar paper. The black tarpaper may cause the hive to heat up too much.

Agree with Peggjam about feral hives. A hollow tree might provide a more stable temperature than a hive wrapped in tar paper.

COmments?

[ September 17, 2006, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: BerkeyDavid ]

[Michael Bush]

Maybe we should build our nucs out of two bys instead of one bys?

[Chef Isaac]

I talked with a beekeeper in canada yesterday and when talking about starvation he suggested to heat up the sugar water and keep it warm with what is called a Beer Buddy which is a belt that fits around the bucket and heats whats in it. The only problem is that it needs to have an outlet to work.

One of my local beekeeping friends suggested using something different than a wooden divider as he says it doesnt trasfer ehat well. Interesting concept if he would just drop a line in this forum.

I think this winter will be interesting as to see what methods work.

I do think that it is important to have a wind break.

We will see!!

[Matz]

Has anyone ever tried using heat trace too keep nucs warm? Same stuff for wells or iced eves troughs.

[Mitch]

peggjam
I think you are right about seeing what fearl hives do to survive.But throw out olde methods may be improve on them.Just wtching what bees do in general helps me alot.

[Mitch]

I am thinking that overwintering a small hive or nuc they have to be ready for the worst that old man winter will throw at them.I am sure what one has to do and have will very alot from one area to another or should i say climate.

Bees swarm in spring so the build up by winter to survive.I do not think many feal bees go into winter with just a few frames of bees.I amn not say i do not think one cannot witer a nuc just maybe not consistant from one winter to the next.I have read many great ideas latly.