First time hive building

[DZE]

I just finished building my first deep hive bodies and have a couple of questions

I seem to be getting excessive chipping on my dato cuts for the box joints using a stacked blade, anything I can do about it?

Also I often get one board that is off a little, maybe 1/8- 3/16 at the box joint, is there an easy way to level the tops and bottoms? I could probably do it with a hand plane but would prefer a quicker option. I have not been able to identify what is causing it yet.

[Hillbillynursery]

Well a better dado may help. I used a Vermont American and it is junk. I then borrowed my cousins set and it does a much better job. I have no idea as what brand it is. The VM set was not smooth. I will ask when he gets out and about in a couple weeks(he got shot with a nailgun in the knee). His set has different length collars which fit over the threads and keeps the blade tips even.

[Michael Bush]

I don't buy a lot of dada blades, but on any saw blade the number of teeth is usually the measurement of how smoothly it cuts. Also if you push it through half as fast it will cut smoother.

I don't recommend it, but my dad has a table saw that he put a different motor on when the old one burned out. It was a VERY fast motor and cut like butter. But I was always afraid of the teeth coming off of a carbide tip blade.

[DZE]

This is a frued dado set, looks great on the front side of the cut but murders the back side.

Looks like my alignment problem is being caused by my rip fence moving.
Brand new craftsman saw and the fence is broke after 2 days of use.
Worst part is it will break again after I repair it. It is really a bad design made of plastic on a high end saw. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/mad.gif

[Hillbillynursery]

I looked at the craftsman saws and none of their small models even had a self squaring fence. You have to make sure it is square after locking it down. I do double check my stil table saw but so far it has not been off. The new craftsman looked like junk to me and is why I shopped else where.

[The Honey House]

DZE
Refering to the tear out on the back side, add some plain old masking tape to that side.
OR back it up with some scrap.

[This message has been edited by The Honey House (edited September 05, 2004).]

[Old Buzzard]

Scoring a line with a utility knife at the height of the cuts on the side where the saw blade emerges will also help stop tear out.

[JohnBeeMan]

Normally the process for making the finger joint (box joint) on a table saw requires the use of a jig attached to the miter fence. In addition to providing the means to control the spacing of the fingers, this jig also serves as a backing board, which should reduce tearout. If the jig has seen multiple adjusts the notch for the dado blade pass-through in the jig may have gotten so large that it no longer provides this backing support.

If your sides are not matching up evenly then you may not be maintaining side orientation as you make the joints. When starting lay out all the side boards and mark them as to order around the box and mark the planned top edge of each. Always start making the dado cuts with the top edge in the jig. This permits any sizing issue for width of finger and the width of the side to work out in the narrower width of the bottom finger.

While making the cuts make sure that the side stays squarely in the jig. Maybe even use a spring clamp to quickly lock it into place is another method to reduce tearout.

Other things that may affect the amount of tear out are:
1) More open (courser) grain will experience tearout problems more than tight grain boards.
2) Quality of saw blade - the better quality blade is better matched for balance and sharpness, which will both effect tearout. Freud blades are typically fairly good. But if you read the woodworking magazine reports on saw blades, you may notice that there are often wide ranges of results for even a common blade manufacturer.
3) Dull Blades do not perform well. This is especially evident in the dado stacked blades when mismatch between blades may cause burning, chatter, or ragged bottoms. If you have a dull blade, jumping up the speed of rotation will not solve tearout problems - just remember those similar tear out issue with router cuts which have speeds 10 times those of the table saw.


The cuurent issue of ABJ has a good article on making the finger joint cuts.

[This message has been edited by JohnBeeMan (edited September 06, 2004).]

[DZE]

Thanks for the helpful suggestions I will try them. But first I have to build a more robust rip fence.
I have been using a craftsman adjustable box jig but will be building a dedicated jig today. That should help I think.....Hope
I will also be building some with a rabbited sp? Joint to see how they hold up.

I only need 50 hives and supers for next years start http://www.beesource.com/ubb/eek.gif

[JohnBeeMan]

I am planning to even do some 'hand cut dove tails' in some of my building next year - The bees will not complain about the look while I learn http://www.beesource.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Rabbit type joints appear to do fine - just be sure to use waterproof glue and nails.

[Hillbillynursery]

That is the key with lap joints. Use a good glue. I like screws better than nails but they are a hassle to predrill with the countersink bit.

[dtwilliamson]

I was having the same problem. I never did get it completely solved. Buying a better dado did help.(For some reason the better dado's always cost more $$ http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif ) I really like the box joints but after I made about 10 boxes I decided that making rabbet joints was going to be much quicker. Don't know if they'll last longer but I glue and screw them together well.

[GA-BEE]

I quit making box joints and started cutting all of the corners on a 45 degree angle and use biscuits with good waterproof wood glue. Makes a neat corner with no exposed grain and so far the boxes are holding up great.

[This message has been edited by GA-BEE (edited September 09, 2004).]

[wayacoyote]

To date, I have been using rabbits on mine; I use the same depth of cut as on the frame rest. Good glue!! I can really put a lot of pressure on the corner joints when fighting propolis to remove that first frame or to scoot frames around. I haven't tried screws as of yet, but I think that would be advisable. I wish I had a drill press with a jig set up for predrilling.

WayaCoyote

[tzeiner5773]

KREG JIG http://www.kregtool.com/ Look for the K2000PP Use butt joints, drill 4-5 holes with jig. Use Exterior grade glue and screw together. I have used this jig for many other jobs around the shop. This is a must have for anyone making thier own boxes. I have built over 30 hive bodies using it. Super strong joint. Takes about 10 min to put one together. No Dado, no finger joints.
Todd Zeiner

[Michael Bush]

I've done both rabbits and butt joints. The biggest advantage to the rabbits is it's easier to put together. If you use screws and glue they all hold together well.

[Oxankle]

A well made hive body with finger joints will last indefinitely. No matter how well made a rabbeted box is it will eventually part at the seams and work loose.

This is not a concern if you have a 5 or l0 year outlook, but at one time I had hives 20 years old.
Ox

[Michael Bush]

I've never had one that is screwed and glued come apart regardless of the kind of joint.

[cadetman]

I am new to bees, but not to wood.

The new generation of polyurethane glues like "Gorilla" (Elmer's makes one that is a bit less $$) are incredible!!! You wet the joint with a damp rag before applying the glue. The glue reacts with the h2o and the bond is unbreakable. The wood will fail before the glued joint.

The best I have found is EXCEL XPRESS Gel. It comes in a caulking tube and is dispensed with a gun. Open/working time is about 10 minutes with a 30 to 40 clamp time. Full cure is 5 hours.

They are "food safe" and can be mixed with sawdust for fill.

Try it....... you'll like it!!


[This message has been edited by cadetman (edited September 12, 2004).]

[SippyBees]

How about "liquid nails"? Anyone have experience with that yet? I have used it on other things but I didn't think about using it on my rabbits.... any opinions?
Thanx

[honeyman46408]

I use "liquid nails" on my lap joints (rabbit)it is cheap,holds good, but I don`t have any long range test some are 4 years old and still going strong.

[Michael Bush]

I have used the construction adhesives similar to Liquid Nails and it works fine. But usually I just use exterior Tite Bond or Elmers. The Elmers is easier to clean up.