Moving a hive in winter

[B100B101]

Hi all,

I have one hive on a rooftop in New York City. The people who own the house where the hive sits want to move it ASAP.

Is it possible to move them in winter? Will they survive? So far they are overwintering well. Is a Spring move preferable?

Thanks for any advice. I'm pretty brokenhearted about this, and want to do my best by my bees.

[Michael Bush]

>Is it possible to move them in winter?

Yes. It's better to move them when it's flying weahter and the bees that fall down have enough heat to move around and get back to the main cluster, but people move them to California from all over the country, in February every year.

>Will they survive?

Probably.

>So far they are overwintering well. Is a Spring move preferable?

IMO Spring is preferable. But you do what you have to.

>Thanks for any advice. I'm pretty brokenhearted about this, and want to do my best by my bees.

If you have to move them, then move them. If it can wait until Spring, wait.

[Henry]

I am no expert but if you move bees in cold weather and break the cluster loose you may kill the colony. Try to explain that to the owners. I would wait untill a 60 degree day if possible.
Henry

[Henry]

It just happen to be 60 here today. smile.gif

[sqkcrk]

If I were you I'd move them when they'd be less apt to want to fly. The "right" time to move is when you can or when you have to. Moving them won't break the cluster unless you drop the hive. A good friend of mine has spent the last two weeks working his bees in his parking area, at his house. He brought his hives home and then took the honey off of them. In many cases he had to shake bees out of the honey supers. One frame at a time. He did this until he had a truck full. His truck is 28 feet long. So my opinion is that you should move the bees when you can, ASAP.

You don't happen to be the guy from the July 2005 issue of FARMING the Journal of Northeast Agriculture, do you?

Mark

[FordGuy]

with a story like "i got a hive on a guy's roof, and he wants me to remove it" you no doubt have a **** good story that goes along with that, and I can't be the only one that wants to hear it.

[sqkcrk]

FordGuy, check out the magazine that I mentioned and you'll find out about David Graves and his 17 hives on the rooftops of buildings in New York City. What I'd like to know is how does someone like him get his bees on to and off of the rooves. Does he take them up and down in the elevator? The article mentions how Graves takes bees to schools for demonstrations, observation hives of course. Graves went to Harlem one time to collect a swarm. But the police wouldn't let him take it off the lamp post. Another beekeeper collected it for the Central Park Zoo.

Mark

[B100B101]

Hi Fordguy,

Yes, it's a good story. In fact, I turned it into a stand-up comedy routine, which I performed as the after-dinner speaker at the PA State Beekeepers banquet in Lewisburg, PA in November.

Sqkcrk, I'm not the FARMING guy. I'm a girl in Manhattan, New York City

[BjornBee]

The story of how she got them up there, which I have heard, is no doubt going to be better than the story of them being moved. Sorry to hear the outcome.

I would move them the first day its close to 50. Close them up tight, move them, and wait a while after the move before you remove the tape or wood blocks, etc. You may have little brood to lose now, but the bees will still be able to cluster and regroup during a day move with temps close to 50. Duct tape everything.

Are you taking them back out the same way you got the equipment up there? (Of course not one piece at a time, just the route?) And this may be a good story, of a bad situation.

Good luck.

[B100B101]

Hi Bjorn,

Moving these bees is going to be a major challenge.

As you know, I assembled and painted the woodenware up on the roof, and hived the packages up there. It was no picnic, because everything had to go up a steep ladder in an indoor crawl space, and exit out of a trap door onto the 4th floor brownstone roof.

I may have to:
1) duct tape and strap the hive together
2) Rent a truck with a small crane/boom to bring the hive to street level.
3) Or, construct some kind of winch to bring the hive down the crawl space, into the elevator, and to the street

At that point, I must load the hive into a bee friend's pickup truck, and drive the bees about 60 miles to another bee friend's home on Long Island, where they've been offered sanctuary.

So, all, please weigh in about whether you think they'll survive, now that you know what they'll have to endure.

Oh how angry I am about the ignorant Block Assn that is harrassing my friends whose roof is home to my hive.

Re Mr. Graves, please private message me.

[Barry Digman]

The story of how she got them up there, which I have heard, is no doubt going to be better than the story of them being moved. Sorry to hear the outcome....Good luckThat's it? "Good luck"????
Gitcher bee buddies and git a posse over there to New York Ciiiiity and help the lady move her livestock. Sheesh. Yankees. ;)
An don't be puttin bees out on Lawn Guy Land. Head 'em back west, even if ya can't make it to the sane side of the Mississippi.

Almost forgot. Take a look at how some of the pollinators move their stuff. I'd think the less handling the better, but distance and temperature don't seem to be as critical.

[ December 27, 2005, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: coyote ]

[Michael Bush]

I'd seal up a box at a time and bring them down. You can make temporary lids out of cardboard if you have to and duct tape them on. Preferably on a warm day. If you can get some nuc boxes, you could even bring them down a five frame nuc box at a time, on a nice day.

[BjornBee]

Coyote, Somehow I don't think B100B101 has any trouble finding a few healthy strong male types to give her a hand. ;)

[Barry Digman]

healthy strong male types to give her a handOh no ya don't. I was clearly gender neutral when I said "buddies". Highly skilled, motivated, experienced beekeeper buddies of any flavor will do as long as they can rescue those bees from the pit of NYCeeeee and do it without annoying the Blockhead Ass., or whoever makes up rules about how other people should live.

[Robert Hawkins]

Hey B100B101, did you catch MB's suggestion. You haven't described the hive to us but if I assume two deeps w/ ten frames each it would fit into four five frame nucs. That's a lot safer on that ladder. What's your temps like?

Hawk

[George Fergusson]

This is simple. I'd obtain about 5 stories worth of stout rope and lower them over the of the building. About 80' of 1/2 manilla would be my preference. If there isn't much overhang you might need to fashion an outrigger of some sort to keep the hive from banging/dragging against the side of the building. You'd also want a good crew.

When I was a small child about 4 years old we lived in New York City for a couple of years with my grandmother. The apartment was on the 12th floor. When we move out, we took a grand piano with us. The movers lowered out the window. The street was quite busy and in typical NY fashion, nobody even noticed.

Obviously, you'd want to fashion a sturdy harness for the hive, strap everything together well, and screen the entrance, and be very very careful. The only trick would be getting it over the edge without banging/jostling the hive too much. A guy rope or 2 would be smart, to keep the hive from swinging around in the wind, breaking windows, etc.

You might want to enlist the aid of some professionals. A professional mover could do it, but I'd contact an Arborist- they routinely take down large trees and lower pieces of tree trunk to the ground around wires, cars, dog houses, and flower beds without damage. Whoever you select, they might be willing to do it pro bono, for the advertising and exposure. If you pitch it to them that way, throw in the sob story, appeal to their sense of duty and honor, and mention that you intend to contact the media (milk it baby, for everything it's worth!) I'll bet they'd do it for a song. Or a dance. Or a song and dance.

This kind of thing doesn't happen every day, not even in New York City. I'm sorry you have to move your hive, but accept the inevitable and make the best of a bad situation: Get on TV smile.gif

George-

[BjornBee]

Coyote, your correct! It was me who suggested some "strong healthy male types". Never suggested you said anything. About the only thing you suggested was that she needed the help to begin with..... ;)

BTW, It may not be "PC" and all, but I would not of asked any "lady" type beekeepers to ride along with me to lift and move hives off the roof. I know them there "girls" in the west are a little man-ly and rough lookin', but I would of asked a few non-lady types to do this sort of work.

[FordGuy]

whatever you decide, we will require a step by step photographic analysis after the fact.

I'd say MB had the best solution. tape lids to top and bottom then the box should be stable enough to ease down on a rope to a waiting friend below with a pickup truck.

they'll make it. bees r tough. specially noo yawk bees.

[George Fergusson]

>I know them there "girls" in the west are a little man-ly and rough lookin'

Ah yes, you mean where the women are strong and the men are good looking, and all the kids are above average.

Never underestimate the strength, endurance, and determination of women! I tried it when I was young and stoopid, and got my clock cleaned. When it comes to beekeeping, I believe women are as well suited for it as anyone. My perspective is if the work you're doing requires brute strength, you're doing it wrong smile.gif

Then there is the whole giving birth thing. There is a very good reason, apart from biology, why women are so well suited for that role. They can take it. Men wouldn't have a chance smile.gif

[BjornBee]

Georgette, ...er I mean...Georgie.... oh, never mind.

>got my clock cleaned.

There a saying when in the company of men. Something along the lines of "now thats a story, better off not said!" Usually it involves panties, make-up, or...or...getting your clock cleaned by a girl. I am sure your not afraid of your masculinity, as the saying goes. Hard to be afriad of something not there huh?..... :rolleyes:

>Ah yes, you mean where the women are strong and the men are good looking, and all the kids are above average.

Geesh george, I said "out West". I didn't specifically say San Francisco.

[iddee]

George has the right idea, but I would like to add a little to it.
Using a two wheel dolly, strap the duct-taped and screened hive to it. Attach the rope in a Y to to top of it.
useing a chimney, flagpole, or whatever is on the roof, make about 3 laps around it with the rope.
While one releases the rope a little at a time, two people ease the dolly over the edge. The rope handler can then ease the hive to the ground an inch at a time without any strain at all. The wheels on the dolly will keep the dolly running smoothly and not allow it to snag or spin on the way down.

[mac]

Call the fire Dept. Tell them ya got a cat stuck on the roof. Call the newspaper / T.V. station. Tell them the fire Dept. is going to rescue a cat from a roof. When they get there and ask where's the cat say cat???? My kid was supposed to say beehive. Then call the S.P.C.A and a lawyer. :D ;)

[sqkcrk]

B100B101
Check your private e-mailbox.

Mark

[George Fergusson]

>Georgette, ...er I mean...Georgie.... oh, never mind.

Just don't start the Georgey Porgey thing, I can't stand the Georgey Porgey thing.

My favorite thing to do on Halloween when I was younger was to dress up in drag. Made a darned good looking woman, by all accounts. The only trouble was the men couldn't keep their hands off me, the brutes. I had defend my honor with my hand bag, in which I had about 10 pounds of rocks.

The last time I did it, I shaved off half my beard and went as half-man, half-woman. It was debatable which half was the better looking. I believe these experiences contributed to my high regard for and respect for women. For crying out loud, look who they gotta put up with!

>I am sure your not afraid of your masculinity

Not since Superman died smile.gif My confidence and security in my masculinity is unshakable and it makes me irresistable- or so says my wife smile.gif

Georgie-

[newbee 101]

I am an hour from you B100B101. I have screens & a handtruck to move them. I can help you, just let me know.

[ December 28, 2005, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: newbee 101 ]

[George Fergusson]

>I am an hour from you B100B101.

Whatever you do, call the media! I want to watch it on TV! I'm serious, this is newsworthy smile.gif Katie Courick would eat this up! She's a bit ditzy.. maybe Matt Lauer would be better. Nah, Katie. Willard Scott?

[BjornBee]

George, having you there as a half women/half man...Now thats something for the cameras!

[Joel]

{Ah yes, you mean where the women are strong and the men are good looking, and all the kids are above average.}

Geroge, that's a Lake in Minnesota!

Your temps in NYC are fine to move the bees. I would to the following. As mark mentioned avoid dropping or thumping the hive down.

Tools
1)hand Truck
2)plastic screening (to close the entrance}
3)1 Ratchett Strap
4)1 stapler W 1/4 inche staples
5)A burlap bag or net bag (disguise.)
6)Smoker
7)duct tape

Smoke the hives lightly

Ratchett strap the hive bodies/top and bottom boards securely.

close the entrance by stapling plastic window screen over the entrance.

Duct tape any edges or holes which allow escape

Pull a burlap bag or net bag over the entire hive to make it less obvious.

Making your move af night 2 people can guide the hand trucked hive down the stairs to the elevator. enjoy the ride to the 1st. floor, roll it out the door, onto your pick up, remove the cover, secure it down and off you go.
Good Luck

Looking forward to meeting you at Greenmarket in the spring!

[sqkcrk]

I just wonder if you shouldn't notify someone so as not to frighten persons unknown. Will you be able to use the service elevator or an express elevator? I'd also think that you'd want to screen the entrance while in transit. I'm just thinking of all of those traffic lights and bridges to get to the Island. John Maloney and I checked some hives at the Farm Museum in Queens last year. Oh the traffic. I grew up outside Washington, DC while the Beltway was being built. That's where I learned to drive. So heavy traffic doesn't usually bother me. Just go with the flow and try not to let the other nuts get to you. But NYC is another story. I was leaving the Island last year, went across the Throgsneck Bridge (I think), saw the sign for CT and turned left 'cause I didn't want to go to CT. Boy did I make a wrong turn. I ended up going across the Bronx until I could catch a north bound H'way to get to the Thru-way so I could head to Albany.

Keep us posted on your move. Give us details. Adventures in Beekeeping Continue.

Mark

[George Fergusson]

>Geroge, that's a Lake in Minnesota!

I knew that. I don't know why Bjorn said San Francisco. Perhaps he was just all flustered thinking of me wearing panty hose and lipstick.

>having you there as a half women/half man...

Oh Bjorn, don't be silly. I pulled that stunt back when I was a computer programmer. Now I'm older, wiser, a respectable beekeeper, and I don't have the legs for it.

[Joel]

George, I knew you knew that I just don't understand how someone calling himself Bjorn doesn't know where Lake Wobegon is! By the way if you haven't read the book it is hysterical, I almost died laughing. It's a nice companion in a prarie home. ;)

Bee careful who you notify, after David graves got all his PR about Rooftop Hives the City passed a ban on beekeeping. Yea, keep them screened when you move them, I meant remove the burlap bag when I said cover. No sense in spreading your bees all over 495!

[BjornBee]

Yeah I know it. Thats the one Prince drove the girl to and had her jump in. ;)

[George Fergusson]

>if you haven't read the book it is hysterical

I'm actually reading it now Joel, when I need a break from bee stuff. I only wish I could catch the broadcast more often- it just comes at (2) inconvenient times.

[sqkcrk]

Actually I believe that NYC has had an ordinance against keeping bees in the city for quite sometime. They consider bees to be livestock and there are regulations against keeping livestock in the city. Maybe there is someone who knows more about that then I do. Please speak up.

Prince drove a girl to a lake and had her jump in? Prince, you mean the fellow Formerly known as Prince and now known as Prince again or are you talking about something else? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

With only 17 colonies of bees in NYC, I wonder where Graves gets the rest of his honey? Do you suppose that he has hives, or honey suppliers with hives, on roof tops in other places? Such as CT where he supposedly has his other bees. I wonder.

Mark

[BjornBee]

sqkcrk, I have no idea. :confused:

[sqkcrk]

No idea about Graves' honey or Prince? What about Prince?
Mark

[BjornBee]

sqkcrk,
Tell me who graves is, and I'll think about his honey or where its coming from.

And if your not confused by Prince, you must be the only one. I think Prince is confused about prince, or at least that other guy that used to be called prince, or that other guy formally....oh crap, now I'm confused even more.

I think graves was prince, or at least wants to be prince, or was that a King? I'll talk to the bishop, and ask if he's pawning his honey from somewhere. What if he is a "rook"ing his honey. Does that sound about right???

[ December 29, 2005, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]

[B100B101]

Hi NewBee101,

Thanks for your offer to help. I'll be in touch.

[sqkcrk]

BjornBee,
David Graves is a guy who has about 17 colonies of bees in NYC, on roof tops thereby the name "New York City Rooftop Honey". According to what I read in a magazine he works 4 markets per week year round. Those would be the Green Markets in NYC. I guess he claims that the honey he sells comes from his bees on the roof tops of the city.

When B100B101 asked her original question I had just read the article and wondered if she were him, not knowing the gender of B100B101.

To B100B101,
One reason Graves was so unfriendly to you may have been because he has somewhat of a monopoly on NYC Rooftop Honey and you were seen as a threat. I don't know I'm just imagining. I've had other people get right in my face and accuse me of trying to steal their market when all I asked was how much do you sell a pound of honey for. Some folks are real sensitive and insecure.

Mark

[Michael Bush]

I'm not sure how the artist currently known as the artist formerly know as "the artist formerly known as Prince" got into the story...

[ScadsOBees]

I don't know anything about artists or princes or even moving bees, I just can't wait till spring and George and BjornBee have more to do outside (or stop drinking redface.gif ) tongue.gif

George, being a computer programmer I resent your inference that that vocation had anything to do with cross-dressing like you did in your former years. I hardly ever do that, and even then I'm not programming.... :>

b100b101, I hope the best for you in your moving of the hives. I am interested in the outcome. Sounds like you may be getting some good help. Just knock first and let them know that they are going to be moving.

[BjornBee]

Scads, here's the scoop on bees. Bees make honey. Honey makes mead. Mead makes good times. Is there a problem with that?

MB, I think George made a comment about dressing up. And since calling someone a "queen" could be taken wrong, I thought "prince" would be better. Then he told me to go jump in a lake. Someone else said "And from a really high rooftop". Next thing you know Willard Scott, some girl named Katie, duct tape, alcohol, and a few other things got mixed up, and hey, its a full blown party. Who's throwing this party anyways! It rocks! Just like B100 and B101 radio stations. right on, party hard, whohoo......

[sqkcrk]

You go BjornBee.
Mark

[dickm]

Sigh. It's going to be a long winter.

Dickm

[B100B101]

My understanding is that it is illegal to keep bees in New York City, but that there is a New York State law called "The Right to Farm" law that has superceded it in a court of law.

I also understand that if someone called the NYPD about a NYC bee hive, the cops could not confiscate it or demand its removal.

I looked into all this before I got started.

You guys/gals are sure keeping me smiling while I fret about the hive move :D

Now, my next problem is that my two litter-trained house rabbits are both sick with colds, and I just took them to the vet - $140!

[sqkcrk]

Bees and wabbits. Whath's nectht,Doc?
Mark

[iddee]

Litter trained or not, Hassenfeffer sounds a lot better than spending 140 dollars. :rolleyes:

[George Fergusson]

I'm having a little trouble following Bjorn's train of thought.. perhaps it's derailed?

>I just can't wait till spring and George and BjornBee have more to do outside (or stop drinking)

Well Scads, drinking doesn't explain it, I don't do that. I guess I'm just naturally blessed with a warped and hilariously bizarre perspective on life. Dunno what Bjorn's excuse is. Does he need one?

>Sigh. It's going to be a long winter.

You can say that again.

[B100B101]

Don't go there, iddee! If you met these critters, you'd never utter that H-word again!

Interestingly, the vet told me that my two are the calmest and gentlest rabbits she has seen. My entomologist friends have said the same about my honeybees.

I think it goes back to another thread here, re talking and singing to critters, and moving among them slowly and carefully.

[newbee 101]

This sounds like a great story with pictures, for Bee Culture or American Bee Journal.

[B100B101]

Yes, newbee 101. Whatever happens, I plan to photograph the move of the hive.

I had planned to photograph the assembly and painting of the hives, hiving the packages, and my beekeeping year on the roof. But my husband, who's a professional photographer, left me. And it's hard to take a photo while holding a frame loaded with brood, and the Queen walking majestically across the comb!

When the hive is moved, I'll recruit a friend to take pix and I'll send an account & photos to BC and ABJ.

[squarehead]

Im about a hour out also if you need help im show

[B100B101]

Thanx squarehead.

Ooh, this girl is happy to have a bunch of boys willing to help her!

[George Fergusson]

B100B101, this is a classic example of a damsel in distress. Chivalry is alive and well! However, from what I know about beekeepers, they'd come to your aid even if you were a decrepit balding middle aged one-armed fat man with a bad back and a limp. Beekeepers are a wonderful, giving group of people smile.gif

If I just described anyone on the board, it was purely by chance.

[B100B101]

< Giggle >

You're right, George.

I've never met a mean beekeeper. Well, just one.

After the holiday weekend, I'm gonna sort all this out, re moving the bees, and how, with whom to help me etc.

Right now, I wanna wish every bee and every beekeeper a healthy, happy 2006!

Here's my virtual toast to you <clink!> of crystal champagne flutes from Tiffany's here in NYC :)

[George Fergusson]

Cheers! I lift my cup of hot, black coffee..

[Joel]

{you were a decrepit balding middle aged one-armed fat man with a bad back and a limp}

Which most of us apparrently are!

[squarehead]

Hey im not bald

[BjornBee]

Ha Ha Ha. All you guys falling over yourselves to help B100B101 after I mentioned that "wouldn't have trouble finding some young strong male" to help her out. And there you go, she has a friend named "Tiffany", who she is apparently spending the New Years with. All you middle aged, graying, beekeepers can go back to scanning the internet.... :rolleyes:

[sqkcrk]

Yeah, I'm not bald either. Got lots of hair around the edges and south of the nose.

Mark

[George Fergusson]

Oh! I'm sorry, did I strike a nerve somewhere?

[iddee]

I think she struck the nerve when she said her husband had left. All right, wolves, go back to your lair. :D

[BjornBee]

George, your never too far left, nor too far right, but smack, right in the middle. :rolleyes:

[George Fergusson]

Busted.

[sqkcrk]

Anybody se the Bees Knees at the top of Bee Source Bulletin Board?

[Blue.eyed.Wolf]

Iddee, you called?

[B100B101]

Luckily, I am not bald either.

But I did not spend New Year's with Tiffany. That's the famous Fifth Avenue NYC store where I got the champagne flutes.

I actually spent New Year's with Chrissy.

Chrissy is a real, live litterbox trained bunny rabbit who sleeps with me.

[George Fergusson]

>I actually spent New Year's with Chrissy.

Oh Ayuh. Don't encourage us B, we don't need it! Our imagination is bad enough without you contributing material for us to chew on!

That said, my wife had to work last night so I spent the night with my doggie Leo. He got to spend the whole night on the bed smile.gif

Happy New Year,

George-

[Joel]

{But my husband, who's a professional photographer, left me.}

What a loser, who wouldn't want to be married to a Beek type?! Except for the yellow spots on the laundry, the occaisional tactical retreat from the garden when a swarm is incoming and a few dead bees in her Jeep when I haul stuff around, my wife loves it!

[ January 01, 2006, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Joel ]

[B100B101]

Yeah, Joel, my man is a loser for leaving me. He hates my adventure in NYC rooftop beekeeping.

Who in their right mind would harbor ill-feeling toward innocent sweet honeybees?

Why why why...

Glad you and your wife and your honeys are happy together :)

Happy, Healthy, Honey New Year to you, and all who read this!

[George Fergusson]

>Who in their right mind would harbor ill-feeling toward innocent sweet honeybees?

I understand B, but there are a lot of people who just see a box of stinging insects and don't see further. They don't see them for the marvelous and amazing creatures they really are.

George-

[B100B101]

Right on, G.

XO to you and everybody around here, from a girl beekeeper who has actually kissed and petted her Honeys and especially, their Queens. With no stings :)

[Jack777]

Speaking of pix for ABJ, that would make a good one.... How to properly kiss a honey bee! On second thought, probably more kick than kissing some people

[B100B101]

Ooh, thinking about being able to go in my hives makes me yearn for Summer on this January day!

[David Stewart]

<Ooh, thinking about being able to go in my hives makes me yearn for Summer on this January day!>

Come on down to Oklahoma... Temp in the upper 70's yesterday, had to open the windows and turn on the attic fan to cool off. No need to even hassle with lighting your smoker....Enough smoke in the air already.

Cheers to all you snow bound folks hehehehehe
David

[B100B101]

Stew,

Hope you and your honeys are safe from the fires.