Honey Suppers

[BoWo]

First I want thank all of you who has helped me so far.
My question is I just extracted my honey, Now do I put them
Away wet or do I take them out in the field about 150 feet from
My hives and let the bees clean them out. Or dose this encourage
Robbing?
TKS
Bo

[dbest]

My Grandfather started storing his supers in the bee yards in the late 40's and it has been a practice of ours ever since. We stack them on 6 way pallets, ratchet strap them down and cover the stack with a sheet of plywood then store them there until next spring

[Michael Bush]

I would put them on top of an inner cover on the hives to clean out so you don't set off a robbing frenzy and then after a freeze you can pull them off and stack them up where ever you like where they will freeze during the winter.

[Randy]

Michael,

I REALLY like your idea of putting the wet supers on top of the inner cover and pulling them off when the weather gets cold. The big advantage to this is that all of the bees are below and you can remove the supers with almost no disruption. Normally I would put the wet supers back on the hive, let the bees clean them, then use the bee escape to get the bees out of the supers before I remove them for winter storage in my basement---that process always seemed like a hassle. This year I was simply considering storing them wet in my basement. I thought this might be an advantage since I would put them back on wet in the spring and it would encourage the bees to move back up and work the supers. Thoughts? BTW, I use moth ice crystals (Enoz) when I store supers in the basement and have never had a problem with moths over the winter.

I live in CT and the flow ends about mid July---normally I would pull the honey supers and extract at that time. Using your method, which is a good one, I would return the wet supers to the hive above the inner cover and leave them until the frost. Here's the question. Normally I would medicate and do the strips in August, but the honey supers are still on the hive. I wonder if I should medicate right after I pull the supers for extraction, then return the wet supers above the inner cover in the fall, and remove them when the weather gets cold. Or, simply leave them on (above the inner cover) for the winter. Any suggestions?

BTW, I only use 1-2 honey supers per hive.

Thanks!

[RAlex]

I usually stack wet suppers on a few of the hives and also leave them out in the yard (offset) for about three or four days before stacking them for winter . I use paramoth in the bottom (empty) super.
Randy dont you have Goldenrod in CT that usually blooms from early august till the first frost. Its a major nectar source here in central NY state. Last fall it could have been much better though.

[iddee]

With the few hives I have I will say right off, if you have more than 20 hives, ignore this. I rob, extract, and replace right back on same hive. Hopefully the same day.

[JohnBeeMan]

>>>I use paramoth in the bottom (empty) super.

I had beren stacking wets on the hives for a couple of weeks and then moving them to winter storage. I had use MS's technique of starting a stack with an inverted top cover and then stacking 8-10 supers. I would then put my plate with paramoth on TOP with and empty super and cover with a plate of Al. or stainless steel or plywood.

This year I changed to using Certan instead of paramoth. With all the warm weather freezing is not much help this year.

[Randy]

RAlex,

Yes we do have goldenrod, however a few years ago I noticed that I had less honey in the supers in late August/early September than I did when I checked the same supers the end of June. So, I've been in the habit of removing them once the heavy flow is over in July. I suspect during the derth of August the bees dipped into their supplies---or should I say MY supplies. I let the bees keep whatever they gather from goldenrod for themselves---I also read somewhere that goldenrod tends to crystalize faster than other nectar sources.

Anyway, I like the idea of putting the wet supers back on the hives and leaving them until fall to remove when most of the bees are below. I'm just grappling with how to medicate the hives with the honey supers on. Like I said maybe I extract, temporarily store the wet supers, then medicate and return the wet supers in the fall, and remove them after the weather gets cold. It beats what I have been doing in the past.

[peggjam]

<Yes we do have goldenrod, however a few years ago I noticed that I had less honey in the supers in late August/early September than I did when I checked the same supers the end of June. So, I've been in the habit of removing them once the heavy flow is over in July. I suspect during the derth of August the bees dipped into their supplies---or should I say MY supplies. I let the bees keep whatever they gather from goldenrod for themselves---I also read somewhere that goldenrod tends to crystalize faster than other nectar sources.>

If the bees are dipping into supplies, they must need it to continue raising brood. If by removing the full supers and thus all the available extra food, you maybe prematurely slowing down brood rearing during that time frame, which in turn would reduce the amount of goldenrod gathered, and reduce overall stores for winter.

<Anyway, I like the idea of putting the wet supers back on the hives and leaving them until fall to remove when most of the bees are below. I'm just grappling with how to medicate the hives with the honey supers on. Like I said maybe I extract, temporarily store the wet supers, then medicate and return the wet supers in the fall, and remove them after the weather gets cold. It beats what I have been doing in the past. >

You may find that they will refill these supers if you provide food for them during the derths. I never remove all the supers until the goldenrod bloom comes on full, so they have enough food to continue broodrearing well into the fall. Something to think about.

[chillardbee]

I've started storing my honey supers out in my yards. One benefit to this is that you don't have all your supers in one place, if you were to have the misfortune of having a fire in your shop and all your supers were in there, well, you know. best not to keep all your eggs in one basket.

[Randy]

Peggjam,

You make an interesting point. I have had trouble getting some of the hives to full strength in the fall. As of late, I've had over half of the hives die during the winter. I checked them today and of 10 hives, only 4 survived. Five of the six that didn't make it had zero supplies. I never had that happen when I pulled the honey supers off in September. Humm, maybe this year I'll follow your advice and go back to leaving them on till the 1st or 2nd week in September.

As for the honey supers, I'm going to store them wet in my basement for the winter.

Thanks!

[Michael Bush]

>As for the honey supers, I'm going to store them wet in my basement for the winter.

I did that once five years ago. My basement is still full of wax moths.

[Randy]

I've been storing them in my basement (not wet though, I've let the bees clean them up) for 5-6 years treated with Moth Ice Crystals (Enoz) and never had a problem. Do you think storing them wet would make any difference?

[Michael Bush]

Yes. Wet feed the moths better. smile.gif I don't treat them with PDB but and I wouldn't want the PDB in my house either.

[Brent Bean]

BoWo:

If you are going to let the bees clean them out 150 feet, is not far enough away. Last year I put my wet extracted supers on a trailer and set them about 150 ft. away from the hives in my back yard and it created a massive frenzy, redface.gif what a mess the poor UPS guy wouldn’t get out of his truck and I had to wait until the next day to get a package delivered. ( Can’t say I blamed the fellow) Now I pull the trailer of wet supers into a vacant field about 300 yards away and let the bees have a picnic. The hornets and wasps also get into the act and clean up any brood that was left in the comb. With the comb being sparkling clean the wax moths don’t seem as interested.

[Michael Bush]

>With the comb being sparkling clean the wax moths don’t seem as interested.

I agree. I'd put them on the hives for cleanup.

[gardenbees]

So if the supers are cleaned by the bees what type of protection do they need once stored? I don't want to use paramoth or any other chemical. It doesn't get cold here for that many days so am I asking for trouble? Theresa.

[Michael Bush]

>So if the supers are cleaned by the bees what type of protection do they need once stored? I don't want to use paramoth or any other chemical.

You always need to close them up well to keep out the mice. But no matter how tightly you close them the moths still get in.

The only ways I know of to keep out wax moths are:

Cold. If it's winter and it freezes hard from time to time the moths will not be around and any in the supers will die. Once the moths have died from a few hard freezes you usually don't see many again until the following summer. (at least here in the North).

Bees. If you leave them on the hive (which I'm not recommending unless you live somewhere very warm) the bees will keep the moths out, if it's a strong hive.

Certan. If you spray the combs with certan (Bt or B401) the bacteria will kill the moths and has no effect on bees or humans. http://www.beeworks.com/usacatalog/subcat33.htm

Another method, if you have a tight building is to fill the building with an inert gas such as C02 or Nitrogen to displace the oxygen and kill the wax moths.

Paramoth, of course, is the "recommended" method. I don't use it.

The supers are the most vulernarable: If they are still wet (sticky and not cleaned up yet). If they have cocoons in them (darker from having brood). If it's somewhere between summer and the first hard freeze.

From the first hard freeze until you're putting on supers they are usually (here in the North anyway) safe enough from moths.

[Brent Bean]

Wax moths are most attracted to frames that have had brood in and especially any frames that might have pollen in them. By separating them from frames that were used to only store honey this will limit supers that require treatment.

[tecumseh]

michael bush states:
Cold. If it's winter and it freezes hard from time to time the moths will not be around and any in the supers will die. Once the moths have died from a few hard freezes you usually don't see many again until the following summer. (at least here in the North).

tecumseh replies:
this will definitely not work if you live anywhere in the deep south (and I would expect the southwest). It is rare winter when we do not have moths on the windows of my house 12 months of the year.

[Michael Bush]

>It is rare winter when we do not have moths on the windows of my house 12 months of the year.

Then you must not get a hard freeze, or you're close enough to places that don't that they migrate?

[jdb5949]

True, to both.
I lived in Central Texas, (Austin) for ten years. They get below freezing two or three days per year. Tecumseh lives near College Station, which is even further south.

[buz]

So--maybe you'd have sufficient space in a deep freeze for the frames? I put what's meant for cut comb in mine--just for a short time. Maybe the same idea works for the moths on spun comb.
Once the cold does it's work--storage shouldn't be a problem....just stack and cover.