Diatamaceous Earth

[pembroke]

I've been reading a lot about this product and was wondering how many of you use this on your garden and how will does it work and where do you buy it from. forgive the long sentence. ;)

[randydrivesabus]

i have a 2 acre organic garden. i have never used it. i would think that one rain will wash it away.
what bugs you trying to kill?

[buz]

Use it on the llama piles--keeps out fly larva.
Cuts down on the smell some too. In the compost it cuts down on the grubs. Don't use much along the garden rows--but might dust a tomato bush if it's got horned worms.

WATCH OUT--don't dust up--or breathe it. Works cause it has little sharp edges that cut soft tissue.

Peace

[LaRae]

I use DE on my garden and it works great. I also use hot pepper wax spray, also works great!

Get a flour sifter and dust your plants (soil around your plants) with a good layer of DE ...do NOT breathe it in...wear a mask or make sure you don't use it on a windy day.

You will have to re apply it after rain.

It also works great on fly control and odor control for livestock areas.

I have the local feed store order it in, I get 50 lb bags for around 25.00....another thing, make absolutely sure it's food grade DE ..don't get the kind they use in pools or construction...it's not safe.


LaRae

[Michael Bush]

Asbestos is natural too. smile.gif And it has a lot of the same properties.

I'm just sayin'...

[peggjam]

I've seen it advertised on ebay under poultry. If you let your birds use it as a dust bath, it's supposed to kill the bird lice, never tried it before. We also use the food grade as a filter aid for filtering maple syrup.

[LaRae]

Works great for the chickens as a dust bath! We keep a small wooden box around with DE in it for them...we have some pretty healthy chickens that are 4 to 6 yrs old and are still laying...no chemicals.


LaRae

[Fernhill]

You can find small bags (5lbs or so) at pet shops. I used to use it when I had aquariums. Filters that are designed to work with DE filter the water to sub-micron levels. It works on insects by cutting through the chitin (waxy) coating that insects have on their exoskeletons. When they contact the DE, it nicks their coating and they dry out and die. You will have to reapply after it rains but it's not a persistent chemical you have to worry about.

Just wear a dust mask when applying it.

Mike

[LaRae]

Mike usually the filter kind is not food grade and shouldn't be used around gardens/humans/livestock...just FYI.


LaRae

[FordGuy]

DE is also great for keeping beetles and pests out of stored grain. you have to get food grade DE but if you do it can be consumed with rice/grain.

I have wondered about piles of DE at the base of a hive stand to keep ants away.

Diatomaceous earth is small particles with sharp edges. The edges abraise the exoskelotons of tiny creatures, basically making them bleed to death. larvae don't stand a chance, and even hard shelled beetles are killed.

[Cyndi]

So, has anyone ever tried this product in their bee hives for SHB???

[scb]

Is this a good alternative (no harm to my bees) to sevin dust on my garden?

[peggjam]

"I have wondered about piles of DE at the base of a hive stand to keep ants away."

I am currently working on my sbb making a tray to place DE in below the screen. I am thinking this will kill any hapless mites that fall into it, but at the same time I don't want the bees to get in it. My other idea was to just place a pile of it under the sbb before setting the hives on the stand, would proably do the same thing.

[Gene Weitzel]

24 hours ago, I placed a cupful of DE on the SBB inserts under my six hives that were really struggling against SHB. I checked them this morning and there were more than 100 dead or dying SHB in the DE under every hive!

You have to be sure that the inserts have blocks on the ends to prevent the bees from getting into the DE as it will kill them as well.

For soft bodied insects is works by scratching and cutting them and they dehydrate and die. I believe it works on the harder bodied insects when they breath it in, it gets into their trachea and cuts it up. Then they drown in their own "insect blood". The SHB don't ever even make it back out of the insert. I use the Safer brand as it also contains a "bait" that seems to help attract the SHB. You do however, need to be sure that the DE used around hives contains no pesticides.

Please, make no mistake about it, DE is deadly to bees so do not use it anywhere where they can get into it.

[Cyndi]

Gene, what kind of SBB inserts are you using??

[peggjam]

Gene

That's why I suggested using it under the screen, so only the mites get into it, not the bees.

[Gene Weitzel]

Cyndi

I am using a 1/4" luan plywood square cut to fit in the slot under the SBB and extend just to both the front and back edges. I have a 3/8" x 14-1/2" block nailed to both ends of the insert (you will probably want to measure the gap between the insert and the SBB to size your blocks, also you don't really have to nail them, just be sure they fit tight enought to block the bees when the insert is in place). I then just spread out about a cup of DE between the end blocks on the insert and place the insert in the groove under the SBB. You need to be sure that the insert is long enough so that the blocks on the ends prevent the bees from getting between the insert and the screen.

[Gene Weitzel]

peggjam

That's exactly what I do, I just have a block (really more like a strip) of wood on each end of the insert to keep the bees from squeezing between the insert and the screen from the outside of the hive and gettin into it. I chose to nail the strip to each end of the insert as it makes it a little easier to keep from knocking the DE off the ends of the insert when I spread it out (with a suitable tool of course).

[Gene Weitzel]

Cyndi

I thought of a better way for you to picture it. If you are using a sticky board on the insert under the screen, just think about replacing the sticky board with about a 1/8" or so layer of DE. It should be effective for both mites and SHB.

[blkcloud]

I actually feed it to my chickens 2-3 times a year as a wormer..

[Cyndi]

oops, double postings....sorry.

[ May 03, 2006, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Cyndi ]

[Cyndi]

Hey Gene,

I was thinking about just buying another sticky board and placing the DE on top of it, spread it out evenly. What do you think??

My hives here in NC are the English Garden Hives from BM. This should be easy. The other hives that I've been messing around with in Georgia...are a little bit more tricky. I'm trying to get these people to replace the entire bottom boards as they are just what they are...boards with no ventilation and are nailed to the first deep. Actually, they look like they would be a pain in the butt to deal with. I didn't even try to mess with them and take them apart. I just want them replaced - period.

BTW, I use DE for my Rottweiler who stays outside and goes hiking with me in backcountry. My dog sitter who also grooms dogs, swears by this stuff as she claims Frontline Plus hasn't worked for a couple of years. I think she is really on to something...and it is much cheaper.

[Gene Weitzel]

Cyndi

>I was thinking about just buying another sticky board and placing the DE on top of it, spread it out evenly. What do you think??

Should work ok as long as you can make it deep enough so that when the beetles get into it they are "swimming" in it.

When I checked my inserts this morning, a hive beetle actually flew into the DE on the insert. It never made it back out, just fluttered a couple more times which got him really covered in it, then he flipped over on his back and started wiggling his legs in vain, just like the rest of em. :D :D

Its got to really wreak havoc with their respiratory system, only explanation for the fast action. I think it gets in there and embeds in the trachea which starts the juices flowing, which causes more DE particles to lodge and well you get the idea. Probably a pretty uncomfortable way to go! :D :D :D

[sqkcrk]

So why waste the expense of a sticky board if you are going to coat it w/ DE?

[Gene Weitzel]

Just use an old one or a peice of heavy cardboard cut to the same size.

[drobbins]

Gene

in the other thread about this subject, Will suggested recycling politicians roadside signs into slide in trays
we had a primary yesterday
now I'm set for life smile.gif
I love it when the lightbulb goes on :cool:

Dave

[Gene Weitzel]

Yeah, that was a great idea! :cool:

Can't wait for the pirmaries here! :D

[brent.roberts]

I learned on a swimming pool forum recently that DE can cause silicosis. There are warnings by the FDA or some such body. I traced it when I first heard about it. DE is used in swimming pool filters ( I have one ) and it does a great job.

Be very cautious about breathing it. Miners learned about silicosis the hard way.

Try a search on http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/index.php Their server had a crash about a month ago and they may not have all the old files restored yet.

[pembroke]

Thanks for all the replys. Pembroke

[Gene Weitzel]

There are all kinds of warnings on the package about breathing it. If you handle it carefully it's not hard to avoid breathing it. It might be prudent to wear a dust mask when handling it just in case of mishaps.

Also for pest control, do not buy the filter grade DE, it does not work very well. Something in the way they process it rounds the edges of the particles too much.

[Gene Weitzel]

Just one more update.

I have recently learned that the main reason not to use pool filter grade DE is that it is treated to form Crystalline Silica, which can be very dangerous and carries a high risk of causing silicosis. Pest grade DE is not treated and carries much less risk. It nevertheless is a respiratory and mucous membrane irratant so avoid breathing it and contact with skin & eyes etc.

[LaRae]

Food Grade DE is even safer/better than pest grade smile.gif


LaRae

[Cyndi]

I don't think sticky boards are very expensive are they?? Besides, with only 2 hives, I think I can afford a couple extry. I was thinking that the sticky boards might keep the DE on better and in place. Like if a strong gusty wind came along and blew it off onto the ground.

[Jim Williamson]

I don't think sticky boards are very expensive are they?? True, but why miss the satisfaction of "decorating" all those eye-sore signs with bee poop, mites, and SHB?

Did I mention I can't stand politicans? Come November, if you're in ... you're out!

[FordGuy]

does anyone know if mites often fall through the screen in the bottom board, and then just climb back in the hive? If this is actually a common occurrence, it would seem to make sense to have DE under the screen.

[Cyndi]

Well Jim, since you put it that way...I wouldn't want to miss that chance....although...when we were teenagers, we used to go around and collect all of them in our area, including the real estate signs too...then we would pick out the girl we hated the most in high school, go to her house at 3am and place every one of those signs in her front yard...funniest site you'd ever seen. Now days I like to knock them over. What pisses me off is when they don't come back and collect them when voting is over...talk about polluting the environment!!

[Jim Williamson]

does anyone know if mites often fall through the screen in the bottom board, and then just climb back in the hive?Fordguy, I understand that the mite falls to the bottom board and waits to hitchhike onto the next bee that passes. With an SBB, the mite falls through and waits until she starves or is feasted upon by fire ants.

[Will]

In my experience, a mite never sits and waits for a free ride. I've seen mites running across comb. They move suprisingly fast. Of course my bees might have had them on the run. They're all small cell :-}

[Dick Allen]

>does anyone know if mites often fall through the screen in the bottom board, and then just climb back in the hive?

does anyone know the age of the mites that fall to the bottom board? are they old mites that are going to die anyway? are they newly emerged mites?

>I've seen mites running across comb. They move suprisingly fast.

Yes, they do move fast and they are quite agile. I've also tried to dislodge mites from bees using toothpicks or small pieces of straw. They simply scurried all over the bee and it truly took some effort on my part to push the mite off the bee.

[ May 04, 2006, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Dick Allen ]

[kenpkr]

I've been collecting pollen with my Sundance and am finding at least 5-7 per day in or on the sides of the tray itself. So they are making their way thru the trap and into the pollen caught in the tray.
Maybe they like to eat the pollen but I just crush the little varmints. Its satisfying in a morbid way. :D

[brent.roberts]

I've read that if you don't put something on the tray, they will climb back up. I spray mine with PAM and it seems to hold some on the tray and about half are dead if I take the tray out within 24 hours.

Other suggestions for the tray - FGMO, vaseline etc.

[Gene Weitzel]

If the tray is in place and you don't have a sticky board, DE or something to keep the mites there they will crawl back up into the hive. If there is no tray and the hive is elevated enough, they fall to the ground and their chance of getting back on a bee is almost nil. Especially in my area where they will most likely get consumed by fire ants.

[RidgeRunnerBunny]

OK, so I have a 50 pound bag of food grade DE, and I just ran across this message. I have placed some around the back side of the hive and sides on the ground for whatevers. I gather I can use some in the bottom cathch pen of my SBB? Is there any chance the bees will fan it up into the hive?

[chillardbee]

here's another intresting fact, DE can also be used to filter beeswax (i reckon there'd be a special method)to bleach it white.

[RidgeRunnerBunny]

Well when you find out how let me know but in the mean time, what was my question?

[Gene Weitzel]

Bunny

I don't know how your SBB is constructed, but with mine there is a good bit of space between the tray and the screen, so they would have to be "super bees" to fan it up through the screen. I have had DE in my SBB trays for about a month now and have not seen any evidence that it gets into the hive in any way.

[RidgeRunnerBunny]

Got mine from Rossman. There is about 2 inches there. Thanks.