No urban legends...just the facts

[BjornBee]

I left some hives go into winter with queen excluders on. I know I have heard some say that the queen could be left below as the bees move up throughout the winter.

If the queen is not laying till late january, and is not producing eggs, won't she be a little smaller and have a better chance to squeeze through the excluder? If a queen is determined, whats the probability that queens can in fact do this when survival is at stake? I have russian and carni's, and they are slightly smaller than the standard italians. I hope they are small enough.

So whats the actual experience without the standard reply? Has anyone really lost hives due to this?

And if egg laying resumes in late January or early feb, will the queen need to travel far from that point anyways as the cluster needs to stay somewhat stationary for brood warmth, etc.

I'm thinking that if the first part of winter she can possible slip through an excluder due to no egg laying, and when egg laying resumes, she should stay somewhat in cluster mass, that does not leave alot of risk.

Comments? Thank you.

[spacemoose]

this leads me to another question i have been wondering ...... if bees are on small cell, wouldn't the queen be small enough to get through there anytime ?

[MountainCamp]

I no longer use queen excluders, however when I did, I had queens slip through them all of the time and lay up into the supers.

What is your hive setup for winter?

[BjornBee]

My standard is a deep on bottom and a medium on top. Some are two deeps.

I just was too busy to get too them. The excluder is on top of the brood chamber with various amounts of supers on top. I would like to think they are full of honey.. :rolleyes: Wishful thinking.

[Jim Fischer]

I've looked at a lot of queens very early in the
spring (like January), well before the queen
gets laying again, and she does not look like
she has missed any meals. Some breeds of bee
will try to keep a small patch of brood going
right through the winter, but I have not seen
this in years, and this trait may have been
eliminated by better breeding techniques.

I paint all my wooden queen excluders red along
the edges, and attach red plastic sheets to
the flat metal and plastic types to make sure
that queen excluders are not overlooked, so
I've never left a queen excluder on all winter.

[Joel]

(I've looked at a lot of queens very early in the
spring (like January),}

Jim, January is about as early in the spring as you can get. Heck, spring doesn't reach the Finger Lakes Region of New York until about the 3rd. week of March! :D

I would be concerned about the queen exlucders from my experiance. I would pull the honey super while it is really cold and then next week when the temps hit the mid 40's-50's I'd pull the exluders. I've done in past years.

[Sundance]

January........... is spring??? Man do I
wish!!! Got up to a balmy 10 F today and
it felt like a heat wave. The weather has
sure gotten crazy.

[honeyman46408]

Well here we go again the BOYZ down south talkin bout openin hives in Jan :( while we is froze in :rolleyes:

[Michael Bush]

>So whats the actual experience without the standard reply? Has anyone really lost hives due to this?

I have seen losses from excluders left on and the cluster moved up and the queen did not. Another reason I dislike them, but easily solved by taking them off for the winter.

I have never really seen a queen quit laying. I watch them in my observation hive all winter. The workers quit rearing brood though and she lays a lot less. She does not reduce in size that I've ever noticed in the several winters I've watch queens in observation hives.

[Jim Fischer]

> Jim, January is about as early in the spring as
> you can get.

Exactly!

> Heck, spring doesn't reach the Finger Lakes
> Region of New York until about the 3rd. week of
> March!

Well, if you want to have a crop off maple,
you have to start pumping your hives up well
before the snow melts, well before the
traditional time that beekeepers remember
that they have hives. If does not take much,
just a warmer (above freezing) day or two to
pop colonies open and toss a pollen patty in,
and slap a feeder on.

Yes, you can get a good crop from the maple
bloom, and when you do, you get bragging
rights for the whole spring. Not every year,
as some years the weather does not work out,
but often enough to make it worth the trouble.

[JohnK and Sheri]

I would be concerned about the queen getting left below the excluder. Our queens stay pretty fat all winter; we have no trouble finding them when we go through them after sending them out to where its warm, even after they've been shut down for a couple months.
Sheri

[Beemaninsa]

I have lost hives by leaving a queen excluder on. Bee move up, queen doesn't. I was under the impression that the determining factor to whether the queen can pass thru an excluder was the size of her thorax, which I doubt shrinks much during winter. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

[ozzy]

I think you are right. thorax is what holds her back as I have watched her try to get through and she never gets past her head. If you have an old excluder you might have queens find a spot that is big enough but normally they can't get through. Even the workers have a tough time and won't pass through with a full crop.