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D. Murrell
01-28-2007, 09:17 PM
Hi Guys,

The Inner Cover section in the Feb 07 Bee Culture is an interesting read.

The internet and Beesource in particular has been instrumental in providing a forum where most of the brethren can gather and share ideas and observations.

Not every idea or speculation has panned out. But those of us who now keep bees, in a way others still only dream about, are indebted to those early efforts and observations. There's a fairly good roll call of those people on the Beesource POV pages.

And I'm personally indebted to those who have taken the time to share their observations with me. I learned much through these kinds of discussions. I learned much when my observations conflicted with my training and expectations. But I've learned the most when challenged by those whose observations differed from mine.

Ten years ago, I couldn't have imaged keeping bees the way I do now. And now I just can't imagine why anyone would continue to keep bees the way I did ten years ago. But the majority of beekeepers still do. And their problems continue to get worse, just like they got worse for me when I kept bees that way. I wonder if it's an American flaw that produces a kind of thinking that's says if what were doing isn't working, we must not be trying hard enough. Maybe it's a distorted form of work ethic?

It interesting to note that when a beekeeper's bees are healthy, thriving and productive, he has alot more time and energy to pursue other aspects of beekeeping than just treatments and survival.

Some, like my self, have tried to discover the whys and improve the process somewhat. Others are involved in breeding feral bees, selling queens,or typing a gazillion posts to help others understand, etc.

These beekeepers are far beyond the 'if it works stage'. And that aspect doesn't concern them much. I hope the rest of beekeeping gets it. Or the last few sentences of that article will probably be all too true.

Regards
Dennis

Michael Palmer
01-29-2007, 06:25 AM
I have to agree. I read the piece twice. Good job, Kim. I'm actually in the middle of writing Kim, a letter...about what I think is the best path.

To me, that path is over wintering nucleus colonies...with queens raised in your area. With his help, I would like to propose a challenge to all beekeepers...with the hobby beekeepers at the tip of the spear.

If hobby beekeepers would learn the nuc wintering method and timing for their area, and have say one nuc for every colony that they manage, then this critical bee shortage the industry faces each spring, would vanish.

Now, I think the biggest challenge would not be the making and wintering of the nucs, but rather the raising of locally grown queens. I think regional queen rearing associations could solve that problem. To ask northern beekeepers to raise the queens, AND the bees(nucs instead of packages) is a bit much. But, if the beekeepers would raise their own nucs, and use queens raised by northern breeders, then the idea becomes workable.

I don't really care what beekeeping methods you use. Be you a chemical beekeeper, or a small cell beekeeper...whether you use acids, or essential oils, or the Bond method...it really doesn't matter. Having over wintered nucs, with queens grown in your area from survivor stock will go a long way in solving our beekeeping problems.

Just my point of view, and my passion.
Mike

Dave W
01-29-2007, 08:55 AM
I found it interesting the words "cell size" was mentioned. Dont see it much in print.

George Fergusson
01-29-2007, 09:40 AM
>with the hobby beekeepers at the tip of the spear.

Nice choice of words...

Ouch! Take it easy! Oooh! Watch it there! I'm moving already! Hey! That hurts!

smile.gif

And it's a great concept. Don't mind me, it's a Monday, I'm at work with a gun to my head and now it appears, a spear at my back, prodding me forward. I'll go! Willingly!

George-

BerkeyDavid
01-29-2007, 10:21 AM
I really liked the analogy of the "brethren" in the article. Treating it like a religion of true believers. It was very well done. Agree with all the posts above.

Aspera
01-29-2007, 12:09 PM
I think that this website is much better than any printed info source that I have encountered. There is a truly astounding diversity of opinions and experiences here, and everyone seems genuinely interested in both teaching and learning.

dogcat
01-29-2007, 02:43 PM
Mike Palmer says it the best for us northerners,we need nucs and local queens...Plan on rasing my own queens this year and I do have a nuc for each hive I have which is sixty two to date. I will be in touch with you Mike.

Maine_Beekeeper
01-29-2007, 05:05 PM
I loved the article and the comments above as well and it got me to thinking about how I started in bees.

So there I was - barely 2 hours into beekeeping - looking at the Dadant website (first on the list on my google search) and I found the Beekeeping Beginner starter kit. Hive (assembled), Frames (plastic foundation) book, suit, smoker, hive tool, brush. It all came in a couple of big boxes and boy were we excited. I think I paid around $250 for it (and then ordered another suit for me as the Almost Perfect Husband was the one to take this "hobby" up).
What if that setup had been $25 more and included a nuc? what if that were in the books? What if it had come with SBB instead of solid? (I see now that Betterbee sells their beginner kits with SBB.) What if it were strongly recommended that you contact your State Apiarist for a list of local bee suppliers and "make sure to order in January" was part of it? (instead of doing what I did which was ordering package bees from Ohio from a company I found in the ABJ that was included with my hive.- Carni's - thank goodness - and good bees, I'd say as they've thrived here...)
Beginning beekeepers start with what they can find and what they are handed in the beginning. Start 'em with the idea that it is good practice to make y their first overwintering "summer" nuc in July from a frame of bees and raise your own queen or buy a local queen from someone in your beekeeping club and that's what they'll do.
Maybe we should talk to the supply houses about their setups. The hobby beekeepers who buy their first few hives at retail will pay for whatever it is said is "necessary" (meaning part of the kit) and will follow the directions.
- I did -
and then I found BeeSource.

Now I've got a couple of overwintering nucs - I'm going to FatBeeman's place in March for some queen rearing fun and experience and my 11 hives (6 Russian/NWC from Velbert) + 2 nucs + OB hive are all looking strong in the COLD.
it's all about exposure to information and BeeSource is what gave me the exposure -
It is easy to find BeeSource if you look for it - it would be easier if it was handed to you.

kenpkr
01-29-2007, 05:28 PM
"it's all about exposure to information and BeeSource is what gave me the exposure -
It is easy to find BeeSource if you look for it - it would be easier if it was handed to you."

Amen to that, brother Maine_beekeeper! (I also like the idea of referring to other beeks as "the brethren"!)

Wish I'd found Beesource before I started or soon after. I'm still into keeping bees only because of luck and a small amt of self-determination. I read and reread books but my real education (besides working the bees) started when I found you guys.

[ January 29, 2007, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: kenpkr ]