Tipped over hive

[Parke County Queen]

Well, after reading about others doing this, now it's me. Last weekend one of my deeps tipped over and all the frames fell out. This hive was kind of nasty anyway, so needless to say, they were pissed. My husband and I put everything right and I went in yesterday and discovered that they are queenless - which I was afraid of. They weren't very nice to begin with, but now they are downright vicious. I have ordered a new queen, but am dreading going in and cutting out all the queen cells. (I saw several.) This may be a dumb question, but I am looking for an easier way to do this. Would it be possible to go into the hive at night with a red light? I have heard of others doing this. Would I be able to see good enough to see all the queen cells? I even thought of putting the triangle escape on the box so I could work without any bees, but I don't think I can do that because of the brood. Any ideas??? :(

[Barry Tolson]

If I were a little closer, I would come help you. Do you have a mentor there who lives close? It's nice to network with other beekeepers that are close enough to lend a hand when needed.
I'm not sure about cutting out the new queen cells...perhaps it won't be required. One of the more experienced folks here will provide some guidance I'm sure.

[Jeffrey Todd]

Parke, why do you want to cut the queen cells out and spend money on a mail-order queen? Unless you want to change queens anyway because they are mean, of course, I would let them make a new one on their own.

[Jeffrey Todd]

Parke, why do you want to cut the queen cells out and spend money on a mail-order queen? Unless you want to change queens anyway because they are mean, of course, I would let them make a new one on their own.
I would never do it at night, as bees seem more likely to crawl and sting at night. If you still want to cut out those cells, I would suit up if you have one and use LOTS of thick smoke before you ever open up the hive. I learned this lesson well doing cutouts this year.

[Michael Bush]

Anytime you have to deal with a hot hive, divide and conquer:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm

Break every box up into it's own hive OFF of the original spot and an empty there. The field bees go back to the old site, the rest are much more managable.

[naturebee]

--Well, after reading about others doing this, now it's me. Last weekend one of my deeps tipped over and all the frames fell out.--(PCQ)

Seems very strange that a colony at this time of year could be tipped over and the frames fall out.

A colony at this time of year I would expect it to have the frames glued in so well that they would NOT fall out. So this makes me suspect a very poor state of health, population or lack of stores exists in this colony. Or a predator animal tipped the hive over and pulled frames.

What I would do for a hot colony is smoke it, secure the lid and hive parts, close the entrance and move it 60 feet or more away and let the aggressive bees drift into your other colonies for a few days before entering the colony. You may need to split it up also into singles which will make them more workable.

--I have ordered a new queen, but am dreading going in and cutting out all the queen cells. (I saw several.) This may be a dumb question, but I am looking for an easier way to do this. Would it be possible to go into the hive at night with a red light? I have heard of others doing this. Would I be able to see good enough to see all the queen cells?--(PCQ)

I would not recommend this. I know that some have done this, but night working can cause many bees crawling on the ground up pant legs, there will be more bees in the hive at this time, seeing is difficult, aggressive colonies will still fly at night to sting, plus not being able to see your footing well makes this IMO a dangerous thing for all but the most experienced beekeepers.

--I even thought of putting the triangle escape on the box so I could work without any bees, but I don't think I can do that because of the brood. Any ideas??? .--(PCQ)

This could work. In about 24 hours, the bees would gather at the entrance and form a cluster. I would not worry much about the brood because enough nurse bees that do not leave the hive often will remain to tend the brood.

Myself, at this time of year would combine troubled colonies using them to boost another weak colony, but you do as you see fit.

[Parke County Queen]

Thanks so much for all the replys. Pcolar - the hive got tipped over because of my carelessness. I had my husband set it on top of another box and it wasn't level enough. The frames were all loose because I had just inspected them.

Jeffrey - I don't know about Texas, but this time of year in IN, the girls have started kicking the drones out. Since it takes awhile for the queen to hatch out, I worried about the queen not getting mated well. Also, like I said the hive is not nice and I should have requeened sooner, but it was my most hard-working hive.

Michael - great advise and something I might try. It would be less intimidating working with a smaller number.

[Edward G]

An additional comment on the divide and conquer idea: set all the boxes off away from the hive stand, each on it's own bottom board, and put a screened cover or inner cover over each box. Then open up only the box you are working on. That way you minimize the number of bees flying. Just a thought.

[jim b]

> I have ordered a new queen, but am dreading going in and cutting out all the queen cells. (I saw several.)

It is probably too late now, unless you could bank your new queen, however maybe you could wait until the queens have all hatched out and have done battle and the sole victor has mated and began laying and then you could go in and find the one queen. This time of year, by the time all that has passed, there may be quite abit fewer bees in the colony.

Or you could allow the victor the spoils and assess her temperment over time and use the store-bought queen to do a split

I speak not from experience on this. It might be a good idea or on the other hand it might be the other kind.

Good luck-
j

[power napper]

PCQ-Just a hobby beekeeper here but IF the hive were mine I would allow one of your capped queen cells to emerge and take control of the hive. There definately is not as many drones as there were a month ago but nature has a way of dealing with things. As fall comes at us the bees become less numerous but just maybe this hive will have less varoa because of the interuption in brood cycle. In two weeks (say October first)your new queen will start laying eggs, by the time the first brood is emerging colder weather will nip at your hives and the cluster will be forming with the new brood emerging. Maybe I am not correct in these assumptions but that is what I would do.
If the hive is still hot or nasty next spring--then immediately requeen.

[Wee3Bees Apiary]

Lack of Drones can definitely be a problem. Parke County Queen, if you feel there aren't enough drones in your apiary, then you are probably right (is it too late in the season to make a mistake?).

Do both! Split the hive and requeen. Leave the mated/unmated queen/queen cells in the original hive and requeen the split. At best, you have two hives if you have enough stores (at worse, you can then recombine and have the original hive with a good queen that was raised or purchased).

[Parke County Queen]

Wee3Bees -

I would like to make a split, but I don't have any extra drawn comb - only foundation. I can't put the bees on undrawn foundation can I?

[Jeffrey Todd]

Parke, your area definitely may dictate a different approach, but here in Texas you could split the comb between the two, add foundation, and feed to get them to draw new comb. I have nucs doing just that right now. But as I say, it may not work for you at this time of year in your area.
Let us know what you decide on and how things turn out!

[Michael Bush]

>I would like to make a split, but I don't have any extra drawn comb - only foundation. I can't put the bees on undrawn foundation can I?

I wouldn't make a split this time of year. I'm doing combines.

[peggjam]

Go in and remove all the queen cells, then introduce your new queen. If the hive was nasty before, it is more apt to be even uliger with a daughter queen running it. It's too late in the year to be taking chances with your hives, unless you can stand the loss.

[sierrabees]

What I would do is follow MB's plan except I would try to split into three or four relatively equal nucs.
I would put a frame with a queen cell in all of the nucs except one, which I would save for the new queen. Be sure you don't miss any queen cells in the nuc that will get the new queen. It is much safer to introduce a new queen to a 3 to four frame nuc than to a large hive. Once the queen is laying I would wait until the queens in the other nucs are producing because it would be hard to find them until they get some size, then I would either squish them and combine all the nucs into one strong hive, or save enough bees in one nuc to make a queen bank for the extra queens and combine the rest.

This way you cover your bases. If you lose the new queen during introduction(this often happens to me if I have a nasty tempered hive and I just give them a new queen)then you at least have some other queens to work with. If they accept the new queen, you can move the nucs together about three feet a day until they are next to each other and have your full strength hive back with almost no lost brood rearing time.

[Ian]

This time of year, Id leave them alone. Its a hot hive, let them fend for themselves this winter, then requeen in the spring. Perhaps there is more to the story than you realize, and you will be wasting your money on a queen.

You got to be sure the colony is good enough to winter first of all.