Folk lore

[SilverFox]

From Heifer International:

"Acording to ancient beekeeping lore, honeybees are very conscious of their dignity and it is an ill omen to give away a hive. Honeybees must be sold for a fair price commensurate with their worth or bad luck will follow. It is also bad luck for the beekeeper of the honeybees to be changed without the bees being told. You can inform them by knocking on the hive, then telling them who their new owner will be. It is very important that honeybees are never moved from one place to another without being told beforehand (I find that informing the bees of their new post zip code is sufficient here). Every beekeeper has the responsibility to maintain the dignity of Gods little servents."

Found it be an interesting piece of lore. smile.gif Am going to have to try it.

[ December 27, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: SilverFox ]

[Michael Bush]

"Because he talked to the fish in the creek.
He tried to tell us that the animals could speak.
Who knows perhaps they do
How do you know they don't?
Just because they've never spoken to you?"
Excerpt from: Boy From the Country by Michael Martin Murphy.

[ScadsOBees]

Ha! It's true, although I never knew it before. Bought a hive for fair market value, but I didn't knock and announce that I was the new owner.

They swarmed within a week of being in the new location (In August), then the swarmed bees came back to the mother hive to rob it. Then the next year they went queenless and the workers started laying. A big headache.

Or it could be because the previous owner didn't want to put more of his supers on because he was getting rid of it causing honey-bound, and because I was inexperienced and killed the queen in early spring manipulations.

Hmmm...I'd like to think it was because of the former explaination.....

[SilverFox]

Will be picking some up this Friday. So I'll introduce myself and let them know where their new home will be, sure can't hurt. And where I'm donating 2 hives to a minimum Security Prison this spring gotta try and keep the girls happy, especially the ones being donated.
Wounder how that works?? Tho I imagine they'll realize they are going to be taken real good care of, and treated with the respect due to them by the inmate chosen to care for them.
Already talked with the inmate who will be taking care of them and he seems excited with the challenge, he has had some experience with bees before.

[ December 27, 2005, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: SilverFox ]

[Ian]

It is sometimes the only way we can make sence of what is or has happened. smile.gif

I live by all of it!!

[dickm]

>>> honeybees are very conscious of their dignity and it is an ill omen to give away a hive.<<<

I have evidence that it was once thought that one should NOT sell a hive. That they were not chattel.

From "The Sacred Bee."

Dickm

[ December 27, 2005, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: dickm ]

[Tim Vaughan]

Dick I read that too in the context of Lithuania.

A presumably educated Western adult going out and knocking on a hive to tell it it's been sold? Or imagining a bee cares about the amount it's sold for?

I hope some of you don't hear about the old Phoenecian custom of dumping a pound down your pants to bring fertility.

[FordGuy]

Mr. Vaughan, dumping a pound most anywhere will bring fertility. Best fertilizer out there.


did you mean bees?

[naturebee]

Hi Silverfox,

Did you see how Tim attacked me when I posted that on Bee-L? Should be Bee-LOL cos' them guys take every thing so serious, they crack me up LOL.

I posted it in fun, I enjoy the stuff, but folklore and proverbs are sometimes not meant to be taken literary and must be interpreted. They are sometimes meant to teach a lesson or advise and not as literal interpretation.

Take this sentence:
“Honeybees must be sold for a fair price commensurate with their worth or bad luck will follow”

Apparently some ancient beekeeper back in the 11 century sold some hives, but he was stupid and therefore sold them real cheep. Stupid as he was, he made other mistakes in life and probably suffered dearly as a result, loosing money etc. Maybe the car was repo’d and his wife left him and got the house. The neighbors no doubt seen the guys continuing misfortune and not having a word for stupidity in those days, probably said it must be bad luck because he sold them bees way back when.

Hence, the sentence translates in today’s world as “Don’t be stupid, sell your bees at a fair price”
Also, when someone wishes you good luck, they are really saying ’don’t be stupid’

Best Wishes,

[naturebee]

Here's more lore:

Because of their status it is still considered unlucky in some places to kill a bee. If a bee flies into the house it is a sign of great good luck, or of the arrival of a stranger; however, the luck will only hold if the bee is allowed to either stay or to fly out of the house of its own accord.

A bee landing on someone's hand is believed to foretell money to come, while if the bee settles on someone's head it means that person will rise to greatness. They were once considered to deliberately sting those who swore in front of them, and also to attack an adulterer or unchaste person; it was once held to be a sure sign that a girl was a virgin if she could walk through a swarm of bees without being stung.

There is believed to be a very strong link between bees and their keepers; bees cannot prosper in an atmosphere of anger or hatred, and will either pine away and die, or fly away. There is still a common belief that bees should be told about deaths that occur in the beekeeper's family; in past times this was extended to include every birth, marriage or other notable event in the life of the family.

It was especially important to inform the bees of the death of their owner; traditionally this was done by the eldest son or widow of the owner, who would strike each hive three times with the door key and say 'The master is dead!'. If the procedure was not followed, the bees would die or fly away. In many districts the hives were put into mourning by having black crepe draped around them, and at the funeral feast sugar or small amounts of the food eaten by the mourners were brought out for the bees.

Seen as intelligent creatures if a death occurs in the family a relative is advised to approach the hive and utter the following phrase three times to ensure longevity and good health 'Little brownies, little brownies, your master/mistress (name) is dead'. At all times the sound made by the bees will indicate whether they are settled or ready to move on; buzzing indicates their continued presence whereas silence should prepare you for a lack of honey.

Moving the hive is not advised if the bees have not been informed first according to a Cornish (UK) belief; not only might they sting the owner but may die if moved on Good Friday. Speak too harshly to them and, as it was believed that bees responded to the tone of the voice, the bees will leave (hence swearing around bees is not advised if you want them to stay).

If a swarm settled on the property or one was found in a dead tree on the acreage then it was once thought to be an omen of death in the family.

The collection of nectar early in the year is still thought to be a positive sign that there will be an abundance of honey, and of course a great floral display. A hive should never be sold without a second thought, bartering was thought to be the best policy to appease the animals. If given away though the hive will bring good fortune to the new owner as well as a constant supply of honey but monitor how they enter the hive. If they appear to become lethargic it indicates misfortune and when the bees do not exit the hive with regularity then do not worry. It has always thought to indicate that rain is in the way.

Be prepared for a visitor to arrive if you find a bee buzzing around the house, and if one flies over a sleeping child then you are extremely fortunate as the child will have a long and happy life according to traditional European folklore.

[Jason Groppel]

I wonder, can I send them e-mail to let them know I am going to move them...or perhaps bee-mail!
JG in TN

[Jason Groppel]

Sorry, I got an error message when I posted the first time. I thought that it did not go through.
Sorry for the double posting.
Jason

[ December 27, 2005, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Jason Groppel ]

[SilverFox]

Pcolar; I hope that you don't mind me sharing that with bee source.
Oh, Tim, Tim, Tim, when I work my bees I talk softly to them, and I'll bet I'm not the only one, and sing songs that you wouldn't understand, 'cause they are (the songs) not in the 'tongue' that you'd understand, I also talk to trees, birds, my cats, dogs, nature in general, why I've been know to hug an old growth or two, not as a protester, but just to give one of the elders a hug. To walk blindly in the world and not listen to what nature says to you as you go about your business is really your loss, cause there is so much to learn. In my way of thinking everything has a soul and feelings, they even found out that plants have a primitive nervous system and react to being picked or cut.
Approaching life with open eyes you tend to learn alot more than if you believe all that you read.
My grand father once told me believe none of what you read, half of what you hear, and part of what you see.
I really do pray for you Tim, that one day you'll remove your blinders and open your mind to new experiences and opportunities, and not just black and white. :D

[naturebee]

> Pcolar; I hope that you don't mind me sharing that with bee source.

That's ok with me silverfox, once posted, I consider it for public consumption.
Take CAre,

[Tim Vaughan]

In my way of thinking everything has a soul and feelings, they even found out that plants have a primitive nervous system and react to being picked or cut. So let me get this straight. You have a secret language that allows you to talk to "nature". And everything on your dinner plate last night had a soul. And I'm missing out on something because I don't have this secret knowledge and power.

[ December 28, 2005, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Tim Vaughan ]

[SilverFox]

Yes, Tim, you are missing out on a lot. :( And it is really sad.

[ December 28, 2005, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: SilverFox ]

[BjornBee]

Silverfox,
Of the saying you qoute from your grandfather...

>believe none of what you read, half of what you hear, and part of what you see.

Can I ask which "half" is the half you believe?

Of course I "read" your comments, so I'll take your advice and not believe any of it. ;)

[SilverFox]

He never explained that part. ;) LOL, so give me your ph* and I'll tell you half. :D

[ December 28, 2005, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: SilverFox ]

[Dick Allen]

“Don’t be stupid, sell your bees at a fair price”Ever read the short story “Gimpel the Fool”?

http://www3.telus.net/Gimpel_Family/Gimpelthefool.html

I don’t recall Singer ever mentioning Gimpel being a beekeeper in the story, but.....

[FordGuy]

brother that weren't short. I thought at least three times, "ah, that is the point of the story" but alas, I too was fooled.

[buckbee]

It's funny how some people are happy to believe that bees care who 'owns' them, or that they can even hear us, and believe in 'luck', but don't believe in dowsing... ;)

Actually I think folklore often reveals otherwise hidden truths - and equally often it is pure fantasy!

[naturebee]

Buckbee,
In an science article, Scientist T. Williamson points out that honeybees can navigate using the earth's magnetic field. The physiological feature which enables them to do this is a tissue in the honeybee with a substance called magnetite in it. These little bees are 'navigating by dowsing', detecting the Ley Lines that are used by dowsers.

Not that I believe in such things smile.gif

[FordGuy]

buckbee, if you are referring to me, I have an open mind on dowsing, and am rather anxious to try it when my place dries up, maybe this weekend. I am trying to think of a fair trial so results are not skewed.

To be honest, I am only convinced in one thing - my faith in God - the rest is sort of just possible. But my faith also allows me to believe that possibly dowsing maybe something God allows - there is the verse where he told a servant to strike a rock and water came out. Im certainly over my head when talking about religion, as I can only speak for myself.

As for plants having primitive nervous system, let me disagree - heavy pruning can trigger a dwarf like growth habit. The plants may respondto a drop or change in turgor pressure (did I spell that right?) but to raise these responses to the level of a nervous system may be overplaying that concept. as for having souls, that is above my pay grade, but I found no reference in the Bible, which is where I would normally look for things like that.

[warrior]

Not to put to much weight on folk lore but if one looks hard enough you can find some grain of truth to some of it. Remember our ancestors were just as, if not more so, as observant as we are and also desired to have some way of explaining it or passing on hard won knowledge. For instance the caution against anger and hatred stands to reason if one considers that anger and frustration in the beeyard often leads to poor judgement when manipulating a colony and poor judgement may lead to rash actions that can upset a colony into aggression. This should be applied in all areas. I have found I am more likely to get hurt or make a mistake when angry. It is much better to step back and cool off before continuing with a frustrating project.
The bartering of hives could merely be a reflection of human nature. How many times has a deal that involved sums of money turned sour as compared to a barter where both parties traded for something they really needed or wanted.
It is also possible that the death announcement was a way to ensure the continued care of the colonies by getting family members out in the bee yard.
Who really knows. I just like to keep an open mind knowing that the ancients were not lacking in intellect just lacking in applied science that we have available today. Could we honestly say that if we were living under the same constraints that we wouldn't come up with similar lore?

[naturebee]

> It is also possible that the death announcement was a way to ensure the continued care of the colonies by getting family members out in the bee yard.

I agree warrior,
Yes, I believe the death announcement is meant to help settle the grieve get help to tending the bees and get on with your life.

> Could we honestly say that if we were living under the same constraints that we wouldn't come up with similar lore?

There is very recent folklore here in western Pa that states “a nice cold Rolling Rock beer is good for reducing sting pain and swelling on the hand and lip“. If you think about it, there is some truth to this lore, so I always keep a few of these cold compresses on my cooler when beekeeping.

[sqkcrk]

In your back yard, I hope. We don't need anymore cases of drunk drivers on our roads.
I know a beekeeper who got a DUI ticket for having "Switchle" in his cooler on his truck seat. He was involved in an accident in which someone else came across the line and ran into him. She was drunk for sure but they were both charged with DUI. I'm sure that she had other charges too. Keep your beer at home. Got one for me?
Mark

[George Fergusson]

>they were both charged with DUI.

I hope he beat the rap... switchle ain't alcoholic.

George-