Electric Bear Fence Investment?

[Yuleluder]

I have the oppurtunity for a bee yard in Carbon County, PA. The owner said that there are bears up there, and sees them on his property occasionaly. What is the approximate cost of placing a Electric fence?

[Jeffzhear]

Depends on how big you want it and how far apart you want to put the posts, and what kind of posts you want...

I think the last one I put in had 11 t-metal posts, about an 1/8 mile of 12 gage wire, one 25 mile fencer and enough insulators for four strands.

All told, I probably have about $175.00 of retail expense into it. However, I used leftover wire that I had, and a box of insulators someone gave me and a used Parmark Solar fencer that I bought for 65.00 and a new 6 V Battery for that fencer that I bought from the manufacturer for 34 bucks, which included shipping. Oh the posts I had were used, free, I just needed to straighten them between the v of an oak tree. So, I have about a hundred bucks into it.

[JohnK and Sheri]

In Wisconsin the DNR wildlife abatement folks supply fencing materials under certain situations, maybe there is something like this is your area. Then the only costs are your labor.
Sheri

[Yuleluder]

How many hives does your fences enclose?

[ January 30, 2007, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Yuleluder ]

[MichelleB]

If you're not sure how much you want to invest in what might be a temporary place, look into electric netting by Premier1. It's highly visible, and easy to set up/relocate.

Their chargers are pricier than the Parmak chargers, but much better. I spent a pretty penny on their solar charger combo, plus netting, but the bear that lives in my woods has been (knock on wood) kept at bay so far. This setup is NOTHING like your typical hotwire for horses--ask my beau, a.k.a. my fence tester.

Gallagher products would be my second choice--available at most farm stores. (You have to order Premier1 online).

Whatever you do, do it before your first bear raid. And bait the fence with bacon or sardine oil.

[bluegrass]

We have hives in Vermont and in the past have found that electric fencing is not effective at keeping bears away. My opinion is that if you have your hives fenced and the bears are not bothering with them than there are no bears in the area. I don't think it matters what the fence costs, the cost of your equipment and bees is what matters. The good news is that when the bear is done with the hive, 50 or so percent of your hive bodies will be repairable. My advice is that unless you are willing to hunt bears, don't place your hives in bear country.

[JohnK and Sheri]

>>>....don't place your hives in bear country<<<
Bluegrass there wouldn't be a hive in Northern WI if we followed this advise. I beg to differ that bear fencing does not work. If your fence doens't work you either have some REALLY REALLY bad bears or the fencer isn't working right. We have fencing around every yard or they get hit. Bears are constantly scoping out our yards, we see the signs and 99% of the time they are turned back by them.
Sheri

[Ann]

I've heard you have to bait the fence, to make sure the bears get poked. Then they pay heed. If you've already been struck by a bear, however, and they have the taste of honey from your yard, then you've really got a fight on your hands! :(

[ January 30, 2007, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Ann ]

[Yuleluder]

This excerpt was taken from the Pennsylvania game commision page.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=478&q=150993

I'm guessing by using the word public, privately owned land does not apply? Can someone help clarify this?


"(b) Fences for bears. - In areas of this Commonwealth where bears are present on lands open to public hunting and are, in a material way, damaging or destroying beehives where ten or more hives are placed at one location or imminent danger exists of such damage or destruction, the owner of such beehives may make application to the director for assistance in the erection of a deterrent fence. "

[Jeffzhear]

Yuleluder, Thanks for the link and good read. I knew there was a catch though...when I got to the part about " The land shall consist of a minimum of 1,000 acres..." I knew I was out of luck! or at least I think I am.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Jeff it doesn't hurt to contact your local agent. The way the rules are interpreted may differ greatly from one to the next.

Ann, we never and have never baited our fences. We DO use yellow ribbon wire. While bears might not see the thin wire fences and need to be baited John has watched bear (from the safety of a tree, lol) walk up to the ribbon which stands out pretty clearly even at night. They always investigate first by sniffing with their wet noses. It is the same thing with horses. They need to see the barrier, not just blunder through it, or by the time they are shocked they are in. When the bear sniffs and gets zapped on that particularly sensitive place they run bawling into the woods and are considered educated, ha.
We have had bear try to dig under the fence, had them target the cornerposts, had them climb trees and jump over but I can count on one hand, actually a couple fingers, the number of times a bear has gone through our hot fences.
If they do get in and get a taste are they more troublesome? Sometimes they can be, with them returning every night for their gourmet dinner. That's when we break out the big guns, ummm, that was years ago ;)
Now we have the DNR put out a barrel trap and relocate the culprit.
But in one case a bear took extreme measures to get in one of the yards, digging a 4' deep x 8' wide hole at the corner post until he could slither under. Once inside he toppled one hive and from what we figure got such a strong attack he hightailed it to the woods, totally trashing the fence on the way out, and never came back, lol. Another educated bear, lol.
Sheri

[kamerrill]

>>My opinion is that if you have your hives fenced and the bears are not bothering with them than there are no bears in the area.<<

Totally disagree. A well designed fence is a highly effective deterrent. There has been plenty of research conducted on black and giz bears to support it. Search some previous posts. I know at one time I posted a link with some Griz. research videos.

>If your fence doesn’t work you either have some REALLY REALLY bad bears or the fencer isn't working right. We have fencing around every yard or they get hit. Bears are constantly scoping out our yards, we see the signs and 99% of the time they are turned back by them.
Sheri <

That has been my experience here in the upper river valley as well. A friend less than 1/4 mile away was hit two years in a row. Why?

1) His charger and battery was ok <he was running 1 joul> but the fence design was poor the first year -grounding was aweful. The second year, the hives were too close to the fence so the bear reached over and pulled them down and through the fence.

2) His hive location was horrible. He placed them to the side of a large blueberry field, butted up to the woods, next to a ravine - almost like he wanted them to get hit, really.

>>I've heard you have to bait the fence, to make sure the bears get poked. Then they pay heed.<<

They need to get a shock to their nose or mouth when encountering the fence or they can walk right through it.

[JohnK and Sheri]

That was a great video, could you post that link again, please?
Sheri

[AstroZomBEE]

a great hint for bear fence is to wrap bacon on the electrified part, so the bear bites the bacon and gets a great shock to the mouth. Since shocking his hide does no good.

Aaron

[nursebee]

$200. Well worth it. Parmak 12 V, cheaper set up if you can use their electric.

[kamerrill]

Link to one of the videos:

http://www.nols.edu/resources/research/movies/bearfence_xl.shtml

[bluegrass]

My experience went something like this:
We have a camp in Sharon that has an orchard that we kept bees in for several years with out any trouble. Then one year the bear ran the fence and spread all six hives over a 12-15 acre area. The bees where gone, the frames trashed and most of the hive bodies beyond repair. We still put hives in the orchard every spring, but as soon as the trees are done blooming we move the hives back down to the house. We haven't seen any bear sign up there in several years, but we still do not take the chance. For those of you who bait the fence you need to take into account that that is not legal in all states. In Vermont baiting bear for any reason is against the law.

[ January 30, 2007, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: bluegrass ]

[Jeffzhear]

I guess I would be baiting for skunks then, should anyone really want to know.

[hoosierhiver]

i've heard of putting a little bacon on your wire,they get that shock in the mouth and don't want to come back.

[Panhandle Bee man]

Yulelander contact the local gamewarden, They used to advertise their numbers, but have now gone to a centralized phone/radio system. Every PA Gamewarden I have ever dealt with have been honest, and helpful. When PA talks about public hunting land they mean that the land isn't posted. On my family farm we post every fall, and take the signs down every winter so the state will stock trout in our stream in the spring.

[claude hachey]

Rather than use bacon to bait the fence, I use sardines. It is easier to keep it on your wires. Partially open the tin can, poke a hole in it, run a wire through the hole and wrap the other end of the wire to your fence. The sardine tin is then electrified and with the partially open can, it lasts a long time and the smell will draw the bear to it. Waist level should be just about right for the bear on all fours. Works really well - just ask my pooch Max

[kc in wv]

>>>In Vermont baiting bear for any reason is against the law.

Who is baiting,, I am helping the poor fellow find the fence so he won't get lead poisoning smile.gif

[sierrabees]

Almost all of my yards are in bear country. I don't scrimp on the cost to protect them. Most problems with bear fences result from poor grounding or dead batteries. For that reason I put chicken wire flat on the ground all around the perimiter and ground it to the charger. I only use good quality solar chargers and carry a voltmeter capable of measuring over 10,000 volts. If the voltage drops below 6,000 I replace the batteries or check for shorts from plant material. I have gotten away from stranded wire and gone to stock panals which makes it easy and fast to move my fences from one location to the next. The stock panals also alow me to put hives closer to the edges and because they are close spaced on the bottom I don't see much skunk or racoon problems.

My cost per fence usually runs about $350 including a good quality solar charger. This sounds like a lot but I figure each of my hives ends up costing that much by the time I add in the cost of building them up, the equipemnt, the fuel to make multiple trips to the yards, and allow for minimum wage for my time. If I have 15 to twenty hives in a location which I do then the value is around $5000. to $7500. If I were going to put that much valuable property on a street corner and walk away I wouldn't hesitate to spend five to ten percent of the value to protect it.

The biggest risk I take is an occasional human preditor stealing a fence charger.

[MichelleB]

I've tried Claude's method (sardine cans) and it's quite handy, if you can keep your boyfriend from eating the sardines before you get them on the fence. Thus, boyfriend = designated fence tester.

Another way to make the bait last longer is to wrap it in foil and poke some holes in it, and hook the foil over the fence wire.

[Spigold]

Sierrabees what kind of posts do you use or otherwise insulate the panels?

[randydrivesabus]

premier fence makes these electric fence bait things. they look like bottle caps that have been drilled so that some wire can be threaded through them and then they are filled with cotton. i use them on my electric deer fence around my market garden. i squirt some apple scent onto the cotton.
lemme see if i can find a picture of them.

http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=529&criteria=bait

[farmer joe]

I also use the Parmak 12V low impedence solar fence charger. It's surprisingly hot, works for weeks in dark cloudy days.
I use electric mesh fencing, the portable New Zealand sheep-type stuff, and baited tin foil balls, rolled up with canned smoked oyster oil. So far so good.

[sierrabees]

I've used the electro-net portable fencing a couple of times but I've had a lot of problems with the wind blowing it down and because it is designed to sit so close to the ground it is hard to weed eat to keep it from shorting out. I only use it now for my goats because it is so easy to move. My bee yards stay in place long enough for the weeds to grow.

[sierrabees]

<Sierrabees what kind of posts do you use or otherwise insulate the panels? >

I use pin lock insulators on t-posts. I cut the 1/4" rod on the ends of the panal and bend it out enough to push it into the pin lock holes in the insulators, then attach the insulator to the post at a level to give me about six inches clearance from the ground. If I have to move a fence I just leave the insulators on the panals and have someone hold them up near the new posts so I can drive the post to the right height. For the posts that fall in the center of the panals the 1/4 " horizontal rod can be forced in where the fence wire would normally go and the pin pushed in to hold it.

One key thing is don't put the fence under the branches of a tree a bear can climb. A friend of mine had one drop inside a very secure fence and get educated from the inside. He had to call fish and game to come out and tranquilize the critter so they could safely open the fence to let it out. Meanwhile the bear had to feed on something, so you can imagine what the hives looked like.

[farmer joe]

If the mesh is falling over chances are you don't have good corner posts that will be holding it all tight.
Weeds underneith are a pain and a weed wacker will damage the mesh. I turn the charger off, walk around the yard with my foot under the fencing knocking the weeds flat. It works for about 3 weeks here.
Some use roundup, but I'd rather not spray it near the bees, or on the property.

[MountainCamp]

Jeffzhear, I read the 1,000 acres as a subdivision of the Commerical forest section. No, a general requirement.

[Chrissy Shaw]

There are a heck of a lot of bears up here. Both Griz and black have been verified. It is my guess, that once a bear has determined honeybees mean food they get a nose for it. I didn't bait my fence the first year, before the bees were in and awoke to a sow and black bear cub about ten feet from my front door. There is nothing so exciting as seeing the snout hair colors on a bear cub!

The bees went in last year and i added a 12 volt charger, heavier wire, grounding across the yard, concrete set corner posts and the assistance of my two large dogs for night duty. Even though around six black bear and one griz were feeding on a neighbors garbage and the next door neighbor learned not to leave apples in the canope of her truck, i did not suffer damage.

The bears winter just above my place in the National Forest, and if you are that close to a bee yard in bear country i would recommend you have a rifle, a air-compressed fog horn (the type used in boats) and also carry these with you to outyards.

Black bears killed at least two people this year, one here in this state. If a bear is in the beeyard when you arrive, stay in your vehicle and roll up the windows. You can not outrun a bear, even a small black bear. Never feed one of these bruins or griz either. These are not misplaced movie stars, they are in fact highly unpredictable animals that have no conception of humans being the top of the food chain.

[ February 11, 2007, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: CSShaw ]

[sierrabees]

I understand the Colorado Fish and Game issued a warning to hikers about bears recently. They reccomended that people hiking in bear country wear little bells on their clothing to let the bears have time to avoid contact and that they carrey pepper spray. They also said hikers should be familiar with bear scat so they could know what kind of bears are around. They said black bear scat is often full of undigested seeds and smells like pepper spray. Grizzly bear scat is much larger and can be full of little metal bells.

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

Alaska fur-n-feathers also recommends hikers wear bells and/or keep a running conversation going. It seems to work pretty well. Then again, they also close the trails at our local glacier when a bear is sighted nearby...

[Joel]

{They reccomended that people hiking in bear country wear little bells on their clothing to let the bears have time to avoid contact and that they carrey pepper spray}

I can tell you if I'm on a wilderness backpacking trip and folks come walking up on me wearing bells I know what I'm using my pepper spray for! :D

My then 14 yr. old son and I Ran into a guy 2 years ago on the 3rd. portage into an Adirondack Wilderness trip. We were a little tired and cranky due to the portage being about 2 miles. The stranger was a nudist with mud up to his waist carrying a canoe who wanted to take our picture. I'm relatively certain he still walks with a limp. Said he was from new Jersey. He was a bear (bare) of a different sort.

My Dad, God Bless him, gave me an M-1 Garand because I often encounter black bears in the equipment yard at night en-route to the honey house. The only time it has been out was when the boar was in the equipment yard, our then 15 yr/s old Australian Shephered was having a serious face to face discussion with said bear and my wife sent me out in my robe and slippers to rescue the dog. (me in a robe and slippers is as scary as it gets) I looked back to find her behind me on the hill with rifle on her shoulder which was at least twice as un-nerving as what lay before me. . I think the word she used was "Covering" you. I'm still mad at my son for loading it for her! The wildlife Biologist in our area gave me rubber buckshot which seem equally suicidal to me.

I think it's best just to use a little common sense and hope for allot of good luck!

A well done bear fence is a good deterrent as long as you get it up before the bear eats. We should all keep in mind, in those dusk hours, a hungry bear may still be near due to the smell of the hives, and the bacon on the fence.

[ February 13, 2007, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]

[Ishi]

Doug;

What brand of pin lock insulators do you use? the only ones that I have found are Red Snapper and they look too small for the 1/4 inch rods looks like they are for wire. They also snap on the post. Will these hold up the panel?