Facts check

[kenpkr]

This year I decided to write a short info sheet about honey and bees to give out with my honey as I sell/give it away. I accumulated various interesting facts from books and the internet that I would like to have you all look at and agree on before I "publish" them for public viewing. Bees are amazing but a few of these "facts" seem hard to wrap my mind around (i.e. believe and understand)!! Take a look and please give your opinions on the veracity of these claims.

- First, bees have been here for 30 million years.
Foragers must collect nectar from about 2 million flowers to make 1 pound of honey.
In fact, collectively, a hive must fly more than 55,000 miles to bring you that 1 pound of honey. Each forager honeybee visits 50-100 flowers during one collection trip. Yet the average forager collects only enough nectar to make about 1/12th of a teaspoon of honey in her lifetime.

- In fact, edible honey has been found in ancient tombs in Egypt, buried there for more than 3300 years.

- A beeÂ’s wings beat about 11,000 times per minute (thatÂ’s 183 beats/second!), thus making their distinctive buzz.

- Never put honey in the microwave! It is said to destroy much of its antioxidant properties, vitamins and minerals and also harms the overall flavor.

- Honey has been used for centuries as a topical dressing for wounds since microbes cannot live in it. This is because it contains a small but potent dose of hydrogen peroxide. The dryness of the honey also removes water from bacteria which kills them.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks!

[Robert Hawkins]

You might be prepared to give in if you're challenged on the microwave taste test. I couldn't taste the diference.

Hawk

[Branman]

Other sources of the antibiotic properties of honey are due to it's high acid content, it's high osmotic pressure due to high dissolved substance content(your dryness comment, basically the bacteria implodes) and other unknown bee-added characteristics of honey. The hydrogen peroxide only forms when the honey becomes diluted I think so it's sort of misleading to say it's the "reason" for honey's antibacterial property.

I read a study done where they used honey made from sugar syrup that also exhibited antibacterial properties, so they determined it was from some unknown bee-added substance.

[Cyndi]

Also, the ancient method of Ayurvedic medicine dated back over 3,000 - 5,000 years ago uses honey for all sorts of things...but don't heat it over 110 degrees. Here's what one of my Ayurvedic books says about honey... Sweet, astringent and heating, honey increases pitta reduces vata and kapha. Honey has extensive use in Ayurveda, both as a treatment in itself for heart, throat, chest, lungs, liver and blood, and as a base in which many medicines are prepared and adminstered to the patient. Honey with warm water is a laxative. With Black Pepper it is a popular remedy for coughs and colds. Upon heating, honey looses its medicinal quality and actually becomes toxic to the system. From honey is produced the alcoholic beverage spoken of in the Vedas as madhu (Sanskrit for honey as well), the health-giving, natural, fermented beverage known in Europe as mead.

Honey is also used in Traditional Chinese Medicine (which dates back over 5,000 years) and is considered to also be cooling to the body as it has the ability to remove heat. Another words it is heating and cooling depending on how you are using it and the type of treatment. It also lubricates dryness in the intestines and internal organs...basically dryness in general.

Honey is some really good stuff!!!

[Robert Hawkins]

so pitta is bad and vata and kapha are good? Just trying to keep up.

Hawk

[Cyndi]

Neither. I don't normally do this...but since you asked....

Ayurveda is the ancient study of life. Man's psychological and physical makeup is classified as belonging to a specific type of constitution called prakriti, which is the underlying or inherent nature of one's being. Prakriti is divided into three main doshas or forces that help to bind the five elemental forces into living flesh. (the dosha's being Pitta, Vata and Kapha). It is nature that determines how we behave, what we desire, what we enjoy, our physical constitution and how we respond to all of the stresses of living. It further determines our physcial, psychological, social and religious patterns of behavior. If we know our prakriti and are well versed in the foods and activities that we are natural to or that aggravate the doshas, we can maintain a more peaceful and healthy body and mind. VERY FEW of us have a pure prakriti of only one dosha, most of us have combinations. That is, we all have all three doshas within our makeup, but there is usually a prominence of one or two. For perfect health, the goal is to have all of the doshas balanced within our prakriti.

[BubbaBob]

Hmmm....Cyndi has her hair done in Jasper...and lived at Lake Arrowhead for a while...and has at least a bit of a grasp of the alternative knowledges...hmmm...Cyndi, do you by any chance know Xylona?

BubbaBob

[Cyndi]

Nope, can't say that I do know a Xylona. Do you know her??

[Curry]

"The dryness of the honey also removes water from bacteria which kills them."

A better way of saying this may be that "Honey is hygroscopic, which means is absorbs water, so honey will kill bacteria upon contact by dehydrating the bacteria."

[Michael Bush]

>- First, bees have been here for 30 million years.

Assuming the current dating systems are accurate. But they are based on a lot of assumptions, like assuming that the carbon 14 available has always been constant ect. Perhaps they are accurate. Perhaps they are not.

>- In fact, edible honey has been found in ancient tombs in Egypt, buried there for more than 3300 years.

That's what I've always been led to believe and it is in Dadant's The Hive and The Honey Bee (at least the edition I have) but there has been some discussion on here questioning the validity of that statement. Try a search on "Egypt" and you might find that discussion.

>- Never put honey in the microwave! It is said to destroy much of its antioxidant properties, vitamins and minerals and also harms the overall flavor.

It's probably good advice. I'd recommend bringing some water to a boil, turning it off and putting it in the water, EXCEPT the new crystal clear plastic containers don't hold up well in really hot water. They shrink and deform.

>- Honey has been used for centuries as a topical dressing for wounds since microbes cannot live in it. This is because it contains a small but potent dose of hydrogen peroxide. The dryness of the honey also removes water from bacteria which kills them.

I'm sure what all the reasons are, but it has been used by many cultures including Europeans in the middle ages.

[BeeBear]

>> First, bees have been here for 30 million years.

Depends on the definition of the word "here". It's my understanding that bees are not native to North America and were brought over by the first settlers, where they became known as "white man's fly".

[kenpkr]

>> First, bees have been here for 30 million years.

Depends on the definition of the word "here". It's my understanding that bees are not native to North America and were brought over by the first settlers, where they became known as "white man's fly".

I meant "here" as in- on the earth, but I guess I could be a bit more specific. ;)

Does anyone dispute any of the quotes about it taking 2 million flowers for 1 pound of honey, and a hive needing to collectively fly 55,000 miles for a lb. of honey.
I just want this handout to be informative AND factual.
Thanks

[Cyndi]

I would be careful about wording it to where the bees have to work so hard...because...some vegans refuse to eat honey for this very reason. Vegans are becoming popular these days...especially in the younger generation.

[SilverFox]

I still belive, after speaking to elders, that the bees were here before the "settlers". The honey bee as we know it today may have come with the "settlers", but, from what I've been told, honey has been here long before then.

[Michael Bush]

>> First, bees have been here for 30 million years.

>Depends on the definition of the word "here". It's my understanding that bees are not native to North America and were brought over by the first settlers, where they became known as "white man's fly".

But actually the ones they found in amber that are 30 million years old where "here" in North America.

>I still believe, after speaking to elders, that the bees were here before the "settlers". The honey bee as we know it today may have come with the "settlers", but, from what I've been told, honey has been here long before then.

That has been my understanding from the Lakota as well. I believe the term "white man's fly" was coined by Thomas Jefferson.

http://www.the-tls.co.uk/this_week/story.aspx?window_type=print&story_id=2110119

" In 1784, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “The Indians . . . call them the white man’s fly, and consider their approach as indicating the approach of the settlement of the whites”.
"

And often repeated by white people since. But repeating it often enough does not give it any more or less validity.

I hang out with American Indians all the time and have never heard the term "white man's fly", while all the old early terms for other things in that era seem to have survived even if they are not in common usage, the old people know them. Terms such as "black medicine" (pejuta sapa) for coffee have not been used for a long time but the old people still remember them as do the dictionaries from that time. The other often quoted statment is that the American Indians had no word for wax or honey. I can't say for all American Indian languages, but there were words for them in Lakota.

[kenpkr]

"But actually the ones they found in amber that are 30 million years old were "here" in North America."

Was this the honeybee that we know and love or some other early bee. Just curious.

[Joel]

As to Michaels comments - Ta ku' Yaka Pelo.

I too though have read honey bees are not native to North America although I don't know how this would have been established. When was Pangea?

[Dan Williamson]

>>It is nature that determines how we behave,...

How about.... "It is our (sin)nature that determines how we behave,..."

>>If we know our prakriti and are well versed in the foods and activities that we are natural to or that aggravate the doshas, we can maintain a more peaceful and healthy body and mind.we can maintain a more peaceful and healthy body and mind.

How about..."(Accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior will help you) maintain a more peaceful and healthy body and mind."

smile.gif smile.gif

Dan

[Dick Allen]

...repeating it often enough does not give it any more or less validity.As I recall awhile back there was a discussion on one of these forums about finding old edible honey in Egyptian tombs. If memory serves me correctly no one from the discussion was able to pinpoint an actual reference from archealogical records of that ever occuring. There were a few containers found in one area that had some old powdery stuff in them that Eva Crane thought might have been pollen.

[BeeBear]

I think that the word "reported" would be more accurate than "coined" in relation to Thomas Jefferson and the term "white man's fly". Your exact words were

>> In 1784, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “The Indians . . . call them the white man’s fly

so Jefferson did not coin the term, he was simply reporting its use by others.

As far as the bees found in amber, I believe that they would be the types of bee commonly called "native" and described at (for example) http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/nativebee.html. The insect that most people think of when the term "honey bee" is used is not native to North America.

Getting back to the original question, I would suggest that pointing out the importance of honey bees in pollination would be a valuable addition to the proposed fact list. From pollination.com [maybe starting yet-another discussion of validity]:

For one out of every three bites you take, you can thank a bee or other pollinator. Over three-quarters of the crop plants that feed the world, rely on pollination by insects to produce healthy fruits and seeds

[MichaelW]

I've read American indians kept, or havested wild honey from solitary bees, not the european honey bee.

EDIT: they are not solitary see post below

[MichaelW]

Here's a dateing of 50,000 years, I thought 30 million sounded too old. The source also mentions the amber speciemin discussed above.


" It is hypothesized that the two species A. cerana and A. mellifera are

still in the beginning states of speciation (Ruttner and Maul 1983). This

hypotheses would indicate a splitting before or during the Pleistocene which

in turn indicates that they were isolated during the last glaciation. Their

distribution into the temperate zone proves a postglacial pattern-therefore

they have existed for only about 50,000 years. (Ruttner 1988)"

from: http://bss.sfsu.edu/holzman/courses/Fall02%20projects/apismellifera.html

[MichaelW]

This source has older dates for earlier Apis species but corroberates what the previous quote says about glaciation and the emergence of Apis mellifera

I guess your date will be dependent on weather you are talking about The current Honey Bee known as Apis mellifera or its ancestors.


http://www.angus.co.uk/bibba/bibborig.html#The%20origins%20of%20honeybees

[MichaelW]

sorry for the multiple posting
here is the link for the Native American beekeping I was thinking of. It is Mayans keeping stingless bees in logs of the species Melipona. And they are still doing it! Seems that it is in in decline and may disapear soon as all the beekeepers are old. Perhapse some young Mellifera beekeepers should pick it up.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050615062105.htm

[Dan Williamson]

MichaelW-

You can edit your posts. (The little pen/paper symbol.) I add somethings to my posts sometimes if I think of it later.

Dan

[naturebee]

As I recall awhile back there was a discussion on one of these forums about finding old edible honey in Egyptian tombs. If memory serves me correctly no one from the discussion was able to pinpoint an actual reference from archealogical records of that ever occuring. There were a few containers found in one area that had some old powdery stuff in them that Eva Crane thought might have been pollen.

Dick, you always were a big party pooper! How can we get these facts right if your gonna keep proving them wrong? smile.gif I did a search, here’s an article that states that the substance found was “initially misidentified as honey”. You had better quick, call Root and have them correct the next edition of ABC,,,XYZ smile.gif

“,,,In an interesting article written for KMT, vol. 9, no. 2 (Summer, 1998, pp. 41-45) his granddaughter, Julie Hankey, quotes a letter written by Weigall to his wife in which he describes his sensations on discovering an alabaster jug with still-liquid contents (initially misidentified as honey) remaining inside: "When I saw this I really nearly fainted....The extraordinary sensation of finding oneself looking at a pot of honey as liquid and sticky as the honey one eats for breakfast and yet three thousand five hundred years old , was so dumbfounding that one felt as though one were mad or dreaming."

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V29C32D4B

another reference:

http://anubis4_2000.tripod.com/SpecialExhibits/Weigall.htm

[naturebee]

In light of DickÂ’s habit of causing so much trouble on these lists LOL smile.gif I suggest sticking to less controversial honeybee facts such as, How many bees equal the weight of a M&MÂ’s plain chocolate candy? :D

Answer: 9 or 10 bees

[kenpkr]

Thanks for all the input folks. Can anyone comment on the veracity of the notion that a honeybee's wings beat at a rate of 183 beats per second. This seems way too fast to be physic- ally possible!

[Dick Allen]

Different numbers are given by different researchers. Dade ('The anatomy and dissection of the honeybee') gave a range of 235-250/second for European workers. Kerr and Buchanan writing in 'American Bee Journal' in 1987 gave a frequency of 210/second for European bees and 270/second for Africanized bees. So, the number of 183/second is actually slower than reported by those guys. :cool:

[kenpkr]

Wow, I just can't imagine anything moving that fast. Amazing!