Races of Bees

[Brent Bean]

What type of Honeybee do you have?

[FordGuy]

can you add 'feral' or unknown? I have some ferals that have pretty much taken over and are prodigious producers, and hygenic, but they will sting the living snot out of you. I don't think they are AHB, but they would like tothink they are.

[Joseph Clemens]

Isn't it Cordovan not Cardovan?

Most of mine originated from a captured feral colony. They are probably Africanized to some degree, but are hardly as agressive as advertised. While I am examining them about 6 - 12 are usually testing the integrity of my veil, but after the hives are closed up again I can walk around among them in sandals, shorts and shirtless without them hardly bothering me at all.

I have a few Cordovan Italian colonies and a few colonies with Cordovan Italian queens open mated with local drones. BTW Cordovan is not a strain or breed of honeybee, but just a genetic trait affecting color -- it can be bred into any honeybee variety.

Oops: I left this out -- most of my colonies/hives are direct decendants of a feral colony I hived 8+ years ago and divided many times.

[Phoenix]

They are probably Africanized to some degree, but are hardly as agressive as advertised. Maybe your bees are not as aggressive as advertised, but that doesn't mean that all AHB are not as aggressive. Don't you think that is due in part to the fact that the AHB genes have been watered down? Just like any other trait, the more genes you pull from good lines the thinner the less acceptable genes become.

BTW Cordovan is not a strain or breed of honeybee, but just a genetic trait affecting color -- it can be bred into any honeybee variety. I'm curious as to what a Carniolan or Caucasian would look like with the Cordovan trait...

[Michael Bush]

>They are probably Africanized to some degree, but are hardly as agressive as advertised. While I am examining them about 6 - 12 are usually testing the integrity of my veil, but after the hives are closed up again I can walk around among them in sandals, shorts and shirtless without them hardly bothering me at all.

I've seen Italians meaner than that. I've seen Buckfasts that would make the mean Italians seem nice.

Why do you assume they are AHB? I see no evidence of it from your experiences.

[Michael Bush]

"Feral" and "all of the above" would have been nice choices. smile.gif

[Brent Bean]

Joseph Clemens, points out.

Isn't it Cordovan not Cardovan?

Your right I misspelled the name (Opps!)

FordGuy asks?

can you add 'feral' or unknown?

I thought (None of the Above) would cover feral unknown honeybees, I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I notice that 31 of the 45 people responding so far have chosen Italian, Why? And are there resistant types?
Michael, the poll allows as many choices as you want.

[Sundance]

Just a suggestion but add "POLL" in the title to catch folks eye better.

[Joseph Clemens]

MB,
In my own way I'm just trying to overcome some of the prejudice that surrounds AHBs.

I am convinced they are not the "Superbee/Killer bee" that publicity has made them out to be.

I try to bring attention to the illogical, even hysterical nature of the attitude that the mention of AHB tends to provoke. I guess "Fear of the unknown" is way too powerful a motivator sometimes. People (curiously beekeepers too) tend to forget how easy it is to change the entire organism (the hive), just by destroying the queen and/or replace her. Or, if that is too difficult, a spray bottle of soapy water and presto, the bad bees are gone. So much for the superbee.

Here are some quotations from news articles at this link (http://news.surfwax.com/pets/files/Africanized_Bees.html);
"The bees were so aggressive they chased the mother and children into a house.", "Africanized bees go for the head and neck, according to the Texas officials.", and a voice of reason: "The fire department says that regular bees are just as dangerous as Africanized bees -- if they are agitated in their hives."

Bottom line:
So what -- I don't care if they're AHBs or non-AHBs -- why would that matter? If they behave themselves in a dangerously defensive/agressive manner, if they're in a hive; requeen or destroy. If they are feral, destroy them. Why would it matter if they are AHB, EHB, or something else. If they pose a threat to humans or domestic animals -- change them or destroy them.

[Michael Bush]

>If they behave themselves in a dangerously defensive/agressive manner, if they're in a hive; requeen or destroy. If they are feral, destroy them. Why would it matter if they are AHB, EHB, or something else. If they pose a threat to humans or domestic animals -- change them or destroy them.

I totally agree, if they behave I think it's irelevant. If they don't then it's VERY relevant.

I just see any reason to think yours *ARE* AHB.

>"The bees were so aggressive they chased the mother and children into a house."

I've had bees chase me into the house before. smile.gif

> "Africanized bees go for the head and neck, according to the Texas officials."

As all honey bees obviously do. smile.gif

>"The fire department says that regular bees are just as dangerous as Africanized bees -- if they are agitated in their hives."

True. And if you run fast enough, you'll probably be fine. smile.gif

[Joseph Clemens]

MB,
You're probably correct. My bees probably aren't Africanized. I had thought they might be -- back when I experienced agressive behavior. I now realize that behavior only happened between flows, when robbing was in progress, during inclement weather, and if the colonies had otherwise been disturbed.

Since my bees are now calm and serene, they either are not AHB or AHB has a false image. Either way, calm, productive bees that tolerate mites without loss seems to be a desirable bee. I love mine. Though I have been experimenting with other bees, here at my home apiary, I will probably keep my other apiary just as it is (local feral survivor mutts).

[louis1st]

Cecropia is missing from this list!

[Michael Bush]

All bees get grouchy in a dearth or bad weather or when they are being robbed. That's what honey bees do. smile.gif

[Brent Bean]

Louis 1st sorry I didn’t include Cecropia, honeybees but then I’m not familiar with the type. I probably could have included Africanized honey bees as well. But I didn’t think anybody was deliberately raising them.
So for everyone that has a suggestion to improve the poll, add your type of Bee and tell why you have them, pros and cons.
Michael and Joseph, the meanest bees I have ran into are Bald Face Hornets, they almost stung me to death when I was 16, I was helping my Dad clear some brush and stepped into a nest. They stung and bite me for about a 1/4 mile, and that’s when I could run fast. Ended up in the emergency room. Surprising tho that’s what sparked my interest in Bees.

[Joseph Clemens]

Hornets ≠ bees. Translation: hornets/wasps -not equal to- bees

Hornets are hornets, they are no type of bee at all.

Hornets and wasps generally eat meat. Bees are strictly vegetarians.

[drobbins]

what kinda keyboard you got Joseph??
I have to use !=

Dave

[Brent Bean]

Thanks Joseph for the entomology lesson. I do know the difference between Wasps, Hornets and Honeybees. I was speaking in general terms concerning stinging incests.

[Joseph Clemens]

drobbins,
I copied and pasted the special character from Microsoft Word.

Brent Bean,
But you called Bald Faced Hornets, "the meanest bees".

[Michael Bush]

>I probably could have included Africanized honey bees as well. But I didn’t think anybody was deliberately raising them.

Just most of the beekeepers in Central and South America. That's only one continent full of people. smile.gif

[Bob Harrison]

Are AHb genetics more widespread in the U.S. than many would have us believe?


Now the lid is off the situation in Florida with the recent press release by Jerry Hayes.

http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/press/2005/07192005.html

quote:
"AHB DNA was detected in 40 of 93 samples taken from honey bee colonies in La Belle, Florida in early May 2005."

"AHB's are being detected in colonies that return to Florida after being shipped around the country for pollination, particularly from almond groves in California where AHb is already established"

My opinion:
Do some walkaway splits and before long you are going to see some real aggressive AHB in La Belle.

[Joseph Clemens]

Curious, until this year I've multiplied both my apiaries by exclusive use of "walkaway splits" and for some reason none of my hives are even "hot". Maybe there aren't so many AHB's or they aren't as common as expected, or maybe they just aren't as totally defensive as advertised.

[drobbins]

Joseph,

check out this thread

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000253#000008

There's a guy, Tomas, from Honduras who talks quite a bit about his experience with AHB.
He doesn't make it sound like AHB are as deadfull as they're made out to bee

Dave

[Joseph Clemens]

It is wonderful to hear of Tomas's first hand experiences with AHB's. And I agree, they don't sound so super-killer to me either.

[Bob Harrison]

AHB is is often painted with a broad brush. Dna tells if AHb as does wing venation but hard to determine if the AHb has the aggressive genes.

You find the bees with 100% A. scutelata genetics and then your pleasurable beekeeping may be in trouble.

Would be similar to the last yard I pulled honey supers from this morning. All bees in hives as flow is over and wanting to rob. Robbing makes for some mean bees!

[dickm]

I thought I had AHB bees in a package from La. I destroyed the hive and sent some bees to the Tucson lab. They told me that there was a 13% chance they were africanized. Can anyone tell me more about what this means. It was the Fabis test, not DNA.

Dickm

[TwT]

well I clicked Italians but i have mutts also from removals.

[Joseph Clemens]

I thought I had AHB bees in a package from La. I destroyed the hive and sent some bees to the Tucson lab. They told me that there was a 13% chance they were africanized. Can anyone tell me more about what this means. It was the Fabis test, not DNA. dickMIt basically means that there is an 87% chance they were not AHB.

[tom patterson]

I choose "None of the Above" I purchased Buckfast 2 seasons ago and the hives have swarmed several times so I don't exactly have feral, But I also don't have Buckfast anymore.

[Brent Bean]

Seems like the majority of honeybees are of the Italian race if, this poll is any indication of the make up of honeybees at least in the US. So wouldn’t the majority of feral hives be Italian or crossbreeds of Italian?

[Michael Bush]

>They told me that there was a 13% chance they were africanized. Can anyone tell me more about what this means. It was the Fabis test, not DNA.

It means they were on natural sized or small cell. smile.gif Other than that it probably means they don't know.

[Henry]

I have three feral hives that I captured. Is there any way of knowing what they are by looks? Two are pretty mean but one is really calm. Almost solid black with a big fat black queen that seems to really lay a good pattern. Would this queen make a good breeder queen for next years requeening?
Henry

[louis1st]

I use both Cecropia x Cecropia queens and Buckfast x Cecropia queens.

All are imported directly from Greece.

I have been disappointed by the buckfast bee as i find it doesn't give me much honey at the end of the honey flow and i always finish by feeding them a lot.

Cecropia is a bee which was noticed by Brother Adam (see his last DVD or books) as able to produce a lot of bees, able to save some honey for the winter without the need to feed, and slow to swarm, but use a lot of propolis and may stop laying eggs too early.

I found them very slow to swarm indeed, and that they produce also a lot of bees but not in excess.

They have gathered a lot of honey (bearing in mind that i used a lot of their adult bees to make some nucs), and i am actually impressed.

They are normally gentle and Brother Adam compares them to the carnolian bee if i remember correctly although at them moment are protecting their honey very efficiently, but are certainly not as agressive as the french black bee or the africanised bee...

I didn't notice any reduction in the size of the brood as where i am in the uk, there is no draught like there could be at this time of the year in Greece.

I believe these colonies could still be moved to the moors for the heather honey and get an excellent crop.

This bee is certainly worth a try but may not be for everybody though!

[Michael Bush]

I don't think Cecropia are available here in the US.