Care to venture a guess on this behavour?

[cphilip]

First actual question:

Situation;

Established large hive with two deeps/excluder/one Medium.

Moved last night so thier first full day in new location. Activity a bit above what one would expect during the mid day but by 2-3 pm settling in and lots of long flights out and back, lots of faning bees on the ledge and all seems normal. Many bees are out foraging and returning. Suprised me how well they were acting. Seemed well oriented or at least on the way to being so. I observed many of them heading towords pasture edges, a nearby creek and up into a full blooming Chinese Chestnut right behind the hive. This Chestnut also previously had some Feral bee activity on it as well as the normal hodpodge of insects that love it. These bees seemed also to like it.

Fast forward to about 5pm....

Under the entrance on the left side a group of bees forms a "beard" down off under the Hive base... continues on till dark but metamorphs to more of a clump and about the same amount of Bees. maybe 50 or so. After dark still this clump. Seems cust a clump of bees. All others seem to ignore it and now seem at rest. Activity of hives seems normal otherwise.

What is this clump? What are they doing. Are they out of room and does this hive need expanding? It is new to me so its interior contents are still unkown to me and I would rather not work them until they settle a few days. But don't want to leave something that needs attention undone either.

I am going to prepare two more mediums with frames tomorrow.

I was going to stick a Sugar water feeder up but there are so many bees at the entrance at this point I think I will wait until they are out and about tomorrow and put it in. However I do think they found water already and are foraging fine. And don't want to discourage them from doing so.

Whats the verdict. Hopefully that picture will show you the clump. It was at dark or just around when I took it. See them hanging off there? I will note that when I picked this hive up last night there was a cluster of Bees on the front face above the entry. So it may be they just need room. But what concerned me here is the stacking up. When they were on the face they were single deep. This is a cluster. Four or five bees deep in places.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Phil


http://scoot.net/gallery/bbs/Hivedayone1.jpg

[cphilip]

Reposting just the picture link as its obvious that they cannot be displayed here

http://scoot.net/gallery/bbs/Hivedayone1.jpg

[Sundance]

Have you opened the brood nest recently?? Just remove the super and tilt up the upper brood chamber and look for swarm cells. It will also give you a picture of brood nest congestion. If it's packed you may want to split.

What was the temperature? If it is warm and the hive is congested, they may just be cooling off.

[cphilip]

Nope. Not done any manipulations and don't believe any have been done recently. Was hoping to give them a few days to settle down from the move and reorient.

It was definately warm. Over 90 degrees. And they were fanning the nest pretty well too.

I could see cooling off. But did not know or expect them to stack up to do that.

Brushed into that pack and no combing going on.

One theory put forth was they may have attacked something there like an intruder bumble bee or something. Cannot really tell as its too dark to see something in that pack. I did brush them a bit to look and it looks just like a clump of bees. And they crawled back up towords the hive after that. Not certain if they reformed the clump or not.

[Branman]

Just was wondering, how high is that hive off the ground? In a picture it can be deceiving, but it looks like it's awfully high. You may have a heck of a time getting a 90 lb box off the top if it's up at chest level.

[cphilip]

20 or so inches off the ground.

I am NOT going to use anything but mediums on up from there... thats for sure! ;)

[Sundance]

I'm guessing your deeps are jammed and there are swarm cells. I wouldn't wait a couple days. Just me though.........

[Sundance]

And if you just tilt the top deep up you will not be disturbing them much. I'd take a look ASAP

[cphilip]

So what would be the best course of action to take tomorrow?

I can get foundation and such quickly... Have Supers and frames.

[cphilip]

Or... will just adding a couple of Mediums and moving the working Medium on up top... relieve some of that congestion and the urge to move out?

[Redneck]

cphilip, There is someone near you that has about 400 hives of bees, He is in the Six Mile area near Terrapin's Crossing. I understand that he will sale you a brood frame of bees for ten dollars. You may want to look this person up.

[cphilip]

actually I have visited him and talked to him. But keep missing him. And I was speaking of him as far as being able to get some Foundation from tomorrow. But that doesn't realy tell me what to do with this hive does it?

[cphilip]

My issue is I really don't want more than one large hive, and got one large hive... now.... how to KEEP one large hive?

I guess however I could be FORCED to expand. Dam Bee's!

[Redneck]

cphilip, You will never be able to stop with one hive. You also have a man that raises queens in the Dacusville area. He actually has an Easley address. I thought this might be helpful to you. This person is Dwight Portor, and he enjoys showing anyone his bees. You would enjoy a visit to his place. I grew up in Pickens County You may know some of the Rampey Family.

[cphilip]

LOL... yea your probably right... Yep. Knew a bunch of Rampeys over there. I am living over in Anderson right now but still have a place out in Pickens. Near the old Prison farm and the Sale Barn. You recall that area? It is out near 6 mile as a matter of fact.

I work at Clemson Univ so I know Mike there too...


So guide me through this then guys. What would you do tomorrow. And why would not just adding some Supers and frames give me some more room and time?

And if I do split should I just move some brood frames over and get a Queen? How many of the two deeps brood frames would I move and give the new Hive if so?

I would rather just give this one some room and get by a few months or something. Was just wanting a Garden hive for now...

[Redneck]

cphilip, Living in that area at one time, I would have bees lay out as you describe because of the high temperature. I always found it to be important to locate hives so they would be shaded from the evening sun. Make sure that there is room in the honey supers. I would not be feeding them sugar syrup at this time of year in your area. You should be about over the swarming season in your area. This is just my opinion.

[cphilip]

Well this make some sense to me. But did they pack up and ball up any like that? The laying out on the front and up the Super I had seen. Not the small ball of bees a few deep. Thats what concerned me as I had not read or heard of that.

Perhaps they were indeed attacking something but I could not tell.

I mean I assume the stress of their first day in the new location, and the fact that it was so hot today. I think it was at or just above 90. And they do have shade late in the day but were just recieving it around 4-5 pm. Had been in fairly strong Sun to that point. They are in partial shade up until about Noon or 1pm and then back into good shade about 4-5 pm. Not deep dark shade all of those points but dappled some of that time.

Also the hive roof has not had the Cap board installed so there is no vent up there yet. I want to go tomorrow and do that. But sounds like your saying adding some more Honey Supers will give me some room as well like I am thinking? Sounds like they might need it.

Wish I knew more what it looks like in there but with it being so new a Hive (to me) I just don't and I guess I am going to just have to do it this early. But I want to be prepared to act all in one swoop so as to not disturb them any more than nessicary.

So here is the preliminary plan I had formulated. Subject to change but..

Go ahead and ready two more Medium supers and frames, move existing honey Super to top and install those two below (just above the excluder). Then watch... maybe peek in on the two Hive bodies this coming weekend? See whats up there then.

Have not fed them at all since I got them home last night. Was thinking on it. But don't have to. I am prepared to if nessicary. Just thought it might be best to let them learn to find the water and food since I can assume they have plenty of stores in there.

Funny thing is I had planned to have some more time to do some learning before I had to get into anything complicated. But they are going to make me work and learn fast!

[jean-marc]

They look like they are hot, full of bees and processing nectar. Sometimes clumps of bees do not make it back in at night. Check for cells and give them another box or two.

Jean-Marc

[cphilip]

I think my plan for today is to get some foundation, install the two Medium Supers I can get together and install the inner cover which should then provide the vent hole. And in the process I should be able to move the existing Medium up to the top. Giving them more space. Then when more time permits this weekend take a peek into the hive bodies.

I would do it all today but its just not going to be possible. Supposedly the heat is to break just a tad by tomorrow. Not into the 90's after today. Just high Mid 80's and some rain. For one thing we have had an unusual period of cool weather up until the last week or so this spring. Hard to aclimate to the sudden return of Summer.

[scb]

One of my hives looks a lot like your picture. The hive entrance in the morning is clear, but by mid afternoon they are covering the entrance. By dark it is back to clear. The temps here have been high (I am south of you in Aiken).

[cphilip]

Yep. Hive was clear this morning.

What complicates the observations is the recent move of the hive along with the onset of "normal" hot weather,,,, and my unfamiliarity with the this hive and my unfamiliarity with Bee's in general.

Since I just got the hive and have not had a change to really examine its guts. I don't really know much about whats in there at this point. I do know there are a lot of Bee's and it appears thriving. And I suspect that upper medium is probably nearing full... at least I suspect it now.

Plus I need to vent the top which should already have been done.

However my Boss has kept bees a good bit of time down in Birmingham Al... and he was rather stumped at that clump. But it seems its not that that abnormal an abnormality from what you guys are observing.

[Michael Bush]

Sounds like a typical overheated/overcrowded beard. Make sure they have enough space in the supers. Make sure they have ventilation (prop the top, remove any tray in the SBB) and accept that if it's still there, it's just the heat.

[cphilip]

Sounds good guys.

I am preparing two shallows as we speak. In between typing I am painting the outsides of two Shallows and stapling in wax foundation for the two shallows frames.

Wanted to use the Mediums but no foundaion that size handy and ready to find foundation was availible so purchased two of them with frames and foundation and ready to get that on this afternoon. In all this might turn out better using these Shallows for lifting off later on. So it might be a blessing.

And I will also install the inner cover and prop it open on the way out. Take care of that in one fell swoop.

Do want to give a shout out to my homies at Bee Well Honey in Six Mile for stocking all the Brushy Creek and Dadant stuff... and not only that being actually cheaper than mail order. Glad I found em. Nice peeps.

[Michael Bush]

>Wanted to use the Mediums but no foundaion that size handy and ready to find foundation was availible so purchased two of them with frames and foundation and ready to get that on this afternoon

Just cut starter strips from whatever size foundation you've got and get it on the hives. The sooner the better.

[cphilip]

Yea well... I am half way through putting Wax foundation in these frames... should finish them and be out installing them within the hour or so... times a wasting... just stopped at 10 frames... 10 more to go...

[cphilip]

Ok... results are...

The upper Medium was full of bees and full of activity. Cell building but no honey nor of course capped cells yet. So it was full and was active. But not as far along as I had surmised it might be. However I do think they could have used some more room. It appeared to be white plastic foundation.

So I went ahead and installed the two small frames with Wax foundation anyway. And corrected the lack of an inner cover with its front vent. Between that and more room I think its going to give them both things they might need.

It was about 94 degrees today. There is not much staging on the front today but its still early... relatively. But there was more front coverage this time yesterday. So I wait and see if the install of the extra space plus the inner cover is enough. If not... then some shims and cover proping is in order. The heat is to break tomorrow though. Only high 80's and chances of Thunderstorms coming back into the picture for the next three or four days.

On another related note. I go right by a group of Hives (what do you call a group of hives? A Hove? hehe... just kidding)... anyway I digress... that Clemson University owns. I go by them daily on my commute. Those hives at 4pm today had TONS of Bees covering the front of them. Almost covered! Many more than mine have had. I was driving by at a distance so I could not tell if there was any of this weird "bearding" or "clumping" like I saw on mine.

[Michael Bush]

>It appeared to be white plastic foundation.

You don't know what kind of foundation you have?

>So I went ahead and installed the two small frames with Wax foundation anyway.

Small? As in medium depth frames in a medium depth box?

>(what do you call a group of hives? A Hove? hehe... just kidding)...

An Apiary. smile.gif

>anyway I digress... that Clemson University owns. I go by them daily on my commute. Those hives at 4pm today had TONS of Bees covering the front of them. Almost covered! Many more than mine have had. I was driving by at a distance so I could not tell if there was any of this weird "bearding" or "clumping" like I saw on mine.

Normal hot weather behavior, but, as you have already discovered, some ventilation and room helps them.

[cphilip]

My bad. Actually they were 2 "Shallows" that I instaled and those associated 10 frames each. Using Wax foundation. In fact it's the first time I ever installed foundation and broke apart new frames and all that. I am learning the proper terminology so forgive me.


No Mike, I did not know what foundation is in there... Since I was not the originator of the Hive and its original construction. I purchased it like this and moved it that night before. Reminder... I just got the hive the day before posting this. And so had not been able to do an inspection and had not wanted to do an inspection until they settled in. But was kind of forced too go ahead yesterday to check for crowding and to install the inner cover. The inner cover was off when I got there to pick it up. To keep the top vent built into it from allowing Bee's to escape. And when we set it down that night we did not want to disturb them any further. So we just yanked the entrance screen off and left them. Then the next day we saw evidence (previously descibed) of heat and overcrowding perhaps. So we had to get ready to deal with both at one time to minimize disturbance of the hive and take care of either or both at one time. So we geared up and prepared two Shallows to go on when we installed the inner cover. That was our logic anyway.

I can say now that my Bearding and Facing congregation is now eliminated. They seem to be happy. with the addition of two Shallows and the Inner lid with its front exit. Have not had to prop it open but will if need be.