WHO FILES INSURANCE?

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I had a poor experiance with my Purvis Brothers Queens. They told me last month that they would send me replacments the middle of May, they didn't, and wern't going to bother to tell me, or so I figured out today when I called them. In short, the post awful insurance needs to be filed for the cost (minus shipping) of the shipment.

I thought that the shipper, since they bought the insurance filed. The shipper told me that I paid for the insurance so I have to file. They are mailing me the information to file.

What is the industry standard?

Since there is $360 to be replaced here, and only sixty days to dispute with the credit card company, I need to go about this the right way.

If any of you are planning to do business with Purvis Brothers, I would caution you to wait until they get a clue on how to handle the everday problems that arise with customers. There is a longer story here, but suffice it to say that HER telephone edicate is less than poor.

[Jim Fischer]

> The shipper told me that I paid for the insurance
> so I have to file. They are mailing me the
> information to file.

They are apparently playing the game of "you go
fight with the Post Office". This is a very weak
way of standing behind their product, as it presumes
that the entire problem is due to some sort of
substandard handling by the Post Office.

If you had Dead-On-Arrival queens, then perhaps
your beef >>IS<< with the Post office, but if
the queens were not DOA, the Post Office is going
to take a position that consists of:

a) We delivered on time.
b) We did not damage the box
c) We did not subject the box to unusual handling
d) Your queens were not DOA

...and therefore, they are going to likely send
you back to Purvis to talk with them about poor
quality product.

Insurance is to cover lost packages or damaged
packages. I doubt if insurance is going to
cover "I am not satisfied with the performance
of the queens", but I've never had such a
problem, as I admit buying queens is a dice roll.

I'd request a charge-back from the credit card
company, as queens that do not meet performance
standards are very hard to blame on the shipping
process, and much easier to trace back to queen
producers shipping everything that lays an egg.

[power napper]

Hey bullseye, I can relate to the dilemma you are having. About five years ago I ordered a three pound package from down south. Most of the bees were dead on arrival. To make a long story short--we conversed back and forth several times, worked with the postal service, took quite a while,got reimbursed for the problem--twice.

[Sundance]

Were they DOA?? If they were then the recourse would be with USPS. If they were alive and not performing, then charge back on your card. Depending on the card company it can be easy or a paper blizzard.

[Lew Best]

Probably similar; I just got a check today from Fedex ground on a machine that I shipped in late March to a guy about 300 miles away; they lost it for about a month then delivered it basicelly destroyed! Was so bad condition they said they couldn't even ship it back to me. Refunded the declared value but not the shipping. I called them & they said they didn't refund shipping but credit it to my account. I told them that I don't have an account but shipped it at Kinko's. They're supposed to "call me tomorrow." :( Bottom line tho is since I was the shipper I had to file the claim & go thru all the nonsense involved over the last 2 months!

Lew

[BubbaBob]

<<...much easier to trace back to queen
producers shipping everything that lays an egg.>>

That's an assumption, and we all know about assuming, don't we?

I happen to know Dan Purvis and Purvis Bros. as they are only 35-40 miles up the road and are the largest breeder in Georgia, the 3rd largest state in bee production, and I do bidness with him. He is honorable, has a good product, and yes, can be a bit brisque...especially this time of year, and especially with yanke...nah, we won't go there.

Call Dan, not the hired help, and he'll take care of the problem.

BubbaBob

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Were they DOA??

Yes, most of them. Eighteen out of thirty were dead when I opened them the next day. Only four survived and are in production. I am sure that the shipment was overheated in transportation or were mishandeled in some way.

The most irritating part of this is the treatment I recieved from the 'lady' on the phone and the false promises from Bill Purvis.

She chastized me for not opening the box at the post office, insuated that I did something wrong, and that I didn't know what I was doing because I didn't install them the same day I got them.

Bill told me in April that he would take care of the insurance and ship replacments to arrive the 13th of May, a month later. I waited another week after that knowing that he has been backloged, and still they didn't show another week later. I called today and they told me that there were not enough queens to replace my shipment and I had to file with the post awful.

>Call Dan, not the hired help, and he'll take care of the problem.

I don't know now, I feel like my fate is somewhat sealed. Perhaps I should file a charge back until I get reimbursed from the USPS.

And where do ya'll find a Yank in Southern Kansas?

[Jim Fischer]

> She chastized me for not opening the box at the
> post office...

Sure, you could have done that...
...once!

Then you'd have to find a new Post Office to
receive your bees!

If that many bees were DOA, then the insurance
will cover the value of the entire shipment, as
it is reasonable to conclude that all the bees
were pushed to the limit of survival.

Post Offices don't want anyone to even look
like they are about to open any "box of bees".

I was alerted to the arrival of one recent
queen shipment by a call to my cellphone.
The Postmistress said "Jim, your weapons of
mass destruction have arrived, please come
get them." smile.gif

[Iowabeeman]

i think your main beef is with the post office. They have gotten pretty good at killing bees the last few years. It costs more to get them on UPS but they always show up alive. Next Day Air is $25 or $30. that's cheap if you are looking at $360 of dead queens. We mail a few queens that we produce if there are only one or two going out. We put them in a 5x7 box with a lot of holes punched in it. It has worked so far but I don't have a lot of confidence in the post office.

[honeyman46408]

"Call Dan, not the hired help, and he'll take care of the problem"
"especially with yanke..."

In my aera of the "yank" country the southern queen suppliers are not a good subject to talk about this year

I can only talk about experance of others ( my friends ) but one of them ordered queens from the above mentioned supplier as soon as the add hit ABJ sent a deposit and has yet to recive any queens or a return phone call=not the way we do busness in YANK country!

[tecumseh]

honeyman46408 sezs: =not the way we do busness in YANK country!

tecumseh replies: so you think honesty is exclusive to a paticular zip code? 5 will get you 10 that the Purvis Brothers (of course I am profiling here folks, so shoot me) are decendents from some yankee beekeeping family from Minnesota, New York or North Dakota.

On the other hand Bulllseye, someone sure doesn't seem to be dealing straight up here and someone certainly has 'some splain to do'. I do have the impression that you would have had quite a different attitude if the telephone lady had tried to deal with your problem directly rather than doin' the blame game dance. Am I wrong?

This example does demonstrate the power of the net in that no matter how much snappy advertisement the Purvis Brother might purchase there will be a number of folks here that will likely have reservation about doin' business with the Purvis Brothers. Am I wrong here folks?

panther passing in the night...

[beegee]

I have two friends who have been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for their Purvis queens. As my bees have so readily pointed out to me, TIME and TIMING are everything in the bee business. No doubt the Purvises are busy this time of year, but the winner of a horse race doesn't have to win by a length, just a whisker. The little things DO matter. Customer service is the name of the game whether you're selling widgets or bees, toothpicks or timber.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>you would have had quite a different attitude if the telephone lady had tried to deal with your problem directly rather than doin' the blame game dance. Am I wrong?

Exactly. I was taken aback when the very first thing out of her mouth was "Why didn't you check them at the post office when you picked them up?" They came in the Jz-Bz plastic box and you can not see through it, so opening it and letting attendants out is the only way to check them.

In my store we work with customers when they have problems. It does not matter who caused the problem, it still needs to be resolved. By no means do you chastize the customer, even when they put the ammunition in backwards, you don't ridicule them.

I heard about the PBA queens last fall and knew that there would be only a thousand queens produced this year. I ordered before the magazine article came out, but was pleased to get more info from the article. I never thought of it as advertizing, perhaps I should have.

I don't mean to turn people away from doing business with Country Honey (dba, Purvis Brothers), but Bill Purvis and the phone 'lady' needs to learn how to deal with the public. Putting customers off, keeping them in the dark, and changing their minds about what they intend to do to solve a problem creates an even bigger one that will shurly hurt them in the long run.

I'm going back to my survival strategy and not buying queens.

[John Seets]

For what it's worth:

Over the years, I have found it EXTREMELY useful to go down to the post office JUST before the bees are to arrive (queens or packages) and talk to the manager. The intent is to educate them on what to do and what NOT to do once they arrive. I can tell you a few stories. This needs to be done EACH time a bee order is to arrive. They will NOT remember what the "rules" are from one order to the next.

This, of course, will not offset damage that occurred prior to delivery to the post office, but can surely lessen the overall probability.

Thanx.

[Jack Grimshaw]

It seems PBA Russians have been over sold.With all the publicity on the web and in ABJ,more beekeepers ordered queens than they could produce in this cooler than normal spring.
But this does not excuse the lack of customer service.I ordered 2 queens in Dec. for delivery last week in April.2nd week in May I e-mailed Dann wondering whats up.No response but a queen arrived 5/18.I called on 5/23 to find out about the other queen and talked to "Jerry" who said that the other guy(who was out to lunch) might know about it.I asked for an e-mail explanation(I was calling from a cell phone)but still have heard nothing.
The queen I recieved ,however,arrived the next day after shipping.The special delivery person from my PO couldn't find my house ,called,and then said she would drop it off on her way from work.Lost,she called again.We gave her a jar of honey when she finally showed up.I have never had a problem with bees or baby chicks with my PO,but I live only 15 miles from the airport.
The queen arrived with 3 pages of directions.Following the directions,the queen was accepted in 4 days in a 4 frame nuc.The quality ,so far,appears to be good.
I can understand production problems.It's been a terrible spring.I just want to know whats going on!!

Jack

[ikeepbees]

Oh boy,

I ordered a few Purvis queens (delivery date not here yet). I sure hope this is not going to be a repeat of my Bolling experience.

[Mtnbees@1]

Mr Bulleyes... I think if you would like to use the web to slander people.. You need to speak the truth from your side. You need to tell people 1. that you were called and advised of your shipment ,your queens arrived Thursday morning and picked up... You did not open your box until that saturday, because your bee yards were 75 miles away.(YOUR WORDS when you called 1 week later) You fed them with an eye dropper until you got to your yards. So at this point is it the post office for handling or the beekeeper.

[Joel]

mtnbees are we to assume since you don't say so you either own or work for Purvis? I read about your family business in ABJ. Best of Luck.

We always check our queens as soon as we get them home. We like the JBZ cage or slender cage and battery box and just shake some new nurse bees in after we check them. I will say most queen producers I've dealt with send us replacements immediately. I've never had to deal with post office insurance. We normally order between 25 and 100 at a time but I've had 1 dead in a 5 order and always got an immediate replacement. I would not deal with anyone who said talk to the post office about a dead queen.( if it wasn't my fault) The hour of my time it would take to deal with is worth much more than the 12 bucks to order a new one somewhere else. It sounds like Purvis may have some growing and communication pains, common when you overextend or underestimate, both can be fatal flaws in this business but can and often do happen to everbody. Fill us in on your situation, we're always ready to listen. 2500 or so beekeepers here read, evaluate and make decisions based on Posts. We want to be informed and give everybody a chance to state their position.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Mr Bulleyes... I think if you would like to use the web to slander people.. You need to speak the truth from your side.

Going back and re-reading what I have posted, the only mis-statment I made is the timing on when I got to open them. It was forty-eight hours after I picked them up that I was first able to open them. I was thinking it was Friday that I received them as that is the day I would prefer to get them.

>You need to tell people 1. that you were called and advised of your shipment

Yes I was, I got the message the day before they arrived. However, since the time I ordered in December or January, I had forgotten when they were to arrive, so I was taken aback when I got the message that they would be there the next day.

>,your queens arrived Thursday morning and picked up... You did not open your box until that saturday, because your bee yards were 75 miles away.

That's correct. Opened 48 hours later, IN my yard. In the meantime I took care of them as I have all other batteries, by feeding syrup in an eyedropper, and keeping them cool and out of the sunlight.

>(YOUR WORDS when you called 1 week later)

And you question MY facts? I called you first thing Monday morning, not a week later.

>You fed them with an eye dropper until you got to your yards. So at this point is it the post office for handling or the beekeeper.

I had done nothing that hadn't worked very well in the past for me. Keeping them cool, out of the sunlight, and fed should have been enough for that short of a time period. I have kept queens in banks for two weeks before that way with no ill effects.

I have yet to receive the forms that you had promised to send me 5-23-05, but in light of your response it may not be necessary.

Bill Vinduska

[Bob Harrison]

I do not want to get in the middle of these two but will add insight.
Bill's question posed to the list was:
"Who files insurance?"
I have filed for postal insurance before. The information should have been on the package. When a queen package arrives you need to find a place away from the post office and open and check for alive queens. Is what all of us do. If dead queens you return to the post office (i bring dead queens with me) and file a claim. Thats why you buy insurance.Insurance claims are filed all the time with the post office. I have ALWAYS got paid. The sooneryou file the better.

Instead of calling Dann on Monday a claim should have been filed. You toss those eighten dead queens out in the post office and they will pay the claim.

I got two queen shipments from Purvis Brothers about the same time and they arrived all alive. I opened the battery box both times in my truck in the post office parking lot. Nurse bees are NOT inclined to sting.

Bill it would be worth a try to take the eighteen dead queens in cages to your local post office with the insurance information. Give a believeable story such as you were sent to Iraq right after the queens arrived and now is your first chance to make a claim. Postal employees (like most government employees) are free with taxpayers money. I believe you will get your money
and doubt any time limitation is in effect.

I don't know what to say about the hard feelings between you and Dann.

I believe I bought the most queens from Dann this year due to short supplies. I am thrilled with mine. Especially the gold line. Due to poor weather during the rearing season one shipment was a week delayed and the other two weeks. The queens were worth waiting for!

The post office has killed many queen orders over the years. Fact! Due to the large number of arrived dead I believe what happened here.

[Bob Harrison]

Bill you say you only got four installed so maybe you ought to try to collect on 26 queens as maybe the others were close to death and not your fault. If they decide to pay the claim I doubt the difference between 18 and 26 will make a difference.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Instead of calling Dann on Monday a claim should have been filed.

That is why I called right away. I have not had any experiance in these things. I saved the queens for proof (still have them) and wanted to know what to do.

I was told that they would take care of the claim and send me bees the middle of May. Had I not been told that, I would have started action with the Post sooner.

>you ought to try to collect on 26 queens as maybe the others were close to death and not your fault.

Agreed.

>If they decide to pay the claim...

I bet they don't since it has been so long and the time allowed for a charge back to the credit card company will be long gone.

[dannzann]

First of all, I want to apologize for any and all inconveniences caused by us. We have been and will remain primarily breeders of bees, specifically, high honey producing survivor bees. We also do some work with Russians, which is our Blue line.

This spring, some of our orders have been and will be late. We have even had to cancel some orders. I could go into the reasons why but I hate excuses. I can only say we worked very hard to do the best we can. I am very happy with the orders we did get out and the initial reports we are receiving have been very good as expected. Because we have a limited number of first come-first serve queens available, I am not surprised we are not seeing positive posts in a public forum. We have received many positive calls and emails. Thank you for all the well wishes.

Bill Davies of Mountain Honey is the guy that has been taking the orders and coordinates shipping, handling the thousands of questions, advice, cheers and complaints, etc. The lady is the love of my life and my wife, Rose. She also takes orders, etc. I have total confidence in her as well as Jerry, and Bill's competence and honesty.

I hope this comes across as humble and gentle as possible but after I heard what happened from Rose, Bill and Jerry on this particular case I am willing to say that Bullseye is lucky I wasn't answering the phone. I have since calmed down and will do my best to make amends. Bullseye--Get hold of me at the end of the season and I will send you replacement queens for free even if I have to take them from my potential breeders. I am the guy that you seen in the magazine. My name is Dann Purvis.

As far as being over sold, man-o-man that is an under statement. Big, steep learning curve on this one-we could have sold 100 times what we produced. If we were crooked we could have easily found a cheap source of queens and re sold while making a profit. I was advised to do so but politely and tactfully, refused. Doing so is not right and is dishonest, considering that we are selling genetics not just a queen. Our Queens (Gold line) have pedigrees back to 1997 from a huge proven survivor gene pool. That is what you get when you buy a PBA queen.

At this time, there is only one producer of our queens and that is us. We are working on changing that. Good news is, we are in communication with some larger queen PRODUCERS and are trying to set it up so we are not only getting our genetics out to the beekeeper in a way that is timely and better for them but also maybe in a way that we might even make some money. I will not do this if the producer cannot produce them in the same or better way that we use to rear queens. If we can find a producer that is capable and willing to do so, then we will be able to have more flexibility without having to bank for long periods while releasing only our queens.

Our ABJ ad is coming out again, I meant to shut it down for the rest of the year because we have more business than we can do but it got by us accidentally, again another costly mistake that I am sure will annoy some folks especially those that we could not fill.

We hand select and ship queens after at least three weeks of laying time and after I do a field evaluation of her laying capability. They are shipped the day of or day after we pull them. Not all will be good but I truly believe that most will do better than anything you have had in the past.

We are trying to learn to produce bees and therefore help pay for some of the expenses of our breeding program and further research. We are not by any form of the imagination; established producers and can call down the road and ask another queen producer to fill the gap if we run into a problem. What we have is a unique one of a kind product that I believe is worth waiting for.

I cannot tell you how many sleepless nights I have worried about disappointing fellow beekeepers. However, we simply cannot resend replacement queens. There are none. All (and more-but that is another story) are spoken for. You have to file insurance. I thought this was explained and am very sorry if it was not clear. Too date, we have had only had 26 dead arrivals. Most were not the fault of the beekeeper, at all. As far as I know, all but 18 have filed for compensation. I will make sure they are at the top of the fall list or spring list if they decide to try again. I would give them away if I had them to give. All are spoken for. Last year, I gave away close to 600 Insemeninated and open mated queens to beekeepers through out the State bee association (Georgia) and others, after receiving a $2,000 grant. This year, I was informed by my friends, family, and bookkeeper (Rose) that I couldn't do that anymore. I am searching hard for public support and that way I can focus only on what I do best and that is breed a bee that survives and produces honey. Beekeepers need it and I hope I can help.

Please be patient with us and forgive us our growing pains. I give you my word that we will not do anyone wrong. If we cannot do it right we will not do it.

I will be in the yards and personally unavailable but Rose, Bill and Jerry will do their best to provide respectful, considerate and patient service.

Sincerely,

Dann Purvis
Purvis Brothers Apiaries

706-781-3128

[Jack Grimshaw]

Dann, Thanks for the update.Thats all I needed.Keep up the good work.I'll take my other queen whenever I get it.

Jack

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>I heard what happened from Rose, Bill and Jerry on this particular case I am willing to say that Bullseye is lucky I wasn't answering the phone. I have since calmed down and will do my best to make amends.

Perhaps if you had answered we would not be at this point, you sound like a reasonable person. I never spoke to Jerry and I don't know what you were told, but I called to report the death of the queens and searching for answers as to what may have caused their demise. I was not upset with anyone until I was accused of mishandeling the queens and killing them myself. I was certainly not offensive to anyone. I was put off by my treatment on the phone, but was appeased by the fact that Bill said that he would take care of the insurance and send replacments in a month. It is unfortunate for both of us that he did not follow through.

>Bullseye--Get hold of me at the end of the season and I will send you replacement queens for free even if I have to take them from my potential breeders.

I appreciate your kind offer, when is the end of your season? I do not wish for a hand out, just to get what I have paid for. I had been eagerly awaiting for these queens since I heard about them last fall at the KHPA meeting and have promoted what I had heard about them here as well. Your work in this breeding project is exactly what is needed if bees are to survive in the world. I applaud your dedication and hard work, and hope that you are rewarded for your efforts.

The young bees that I have seen hatching are quite striking, a beautiful golden color. I have high hopes for them.

I appreciate the time and consideration you have put in this post, I will phone you soon.

Thank you,
Bill Vinduska

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I just can't get a break. I went to the Post Awful yesterday and the head guy told me 'the guy that handles insurance is gone for the day, come back tomorrow'.

I went back today and talked to him. He had already called the Postmaster at the main and was informed that they dont insure death, only lost or damaged packages. :confused:

I said that is not right. He supplied me with a copy of the Post Awful's rules, or codes, or whatever they call them. He even highlighted it for me, I don't think he read it, but was insistant that I could not file a claim.

_________________________________________

Exhibit 526.21
Requirements for Mailing Live Bees
<snip>

526.22
Claims for Bee Shipments
Indeminity claims (see DMM S010) for damage, partial loss, and loss of insured shipments of mailable bees are accepted only in the following situations.

A. Death of the bees resulted from postal handling after conditions for mailability were met and when there was strong likelihood that the shipment could have been safely transported.

B. Contents were lost because of damage to the container while in postal custody.

C. The complete package was lost in the mail.

D. Special handling was purchased as required under DMM C022.3.7

_____________________________________________

Does not A. apply here? I am not fluent in legaleze, but I think he handed me my proof.

This deal just gets worse. Hey Bubbabob! (ex-lawyer type) Got any advice?

[loggermike]

I think you have them. A. Death of the bees resulted from postal handling(they were alive when shipped-so what else could it be?Not you -you babied the package -assuming they were alive))after conditions for mailability were met and when there was strong likelihood that the shipment could have been safely transported.(other shipments arrived in fine shape -so conditions were obviously safe).The fact that you delayed checking them is the only drawback.But you as an experienced beekeeper knew that you gave them proper care after arrival,had they been alive.Put in the claim.
--Mike (ex-logger not ex-lawyer,but dealt with so many *%^$#* lawyers starting to think like one)

[BubbaBob]

526.22A does indeed put the onus on the USPS. At this point, the only way they can claim otherwise would be an accusation of mishandling on your part, mainly the time element, and that is easily dealt with by "experts" in the field writing a short, notarized affidavit that your handling of them was proper. Hell, I'll go out on a limb here and say that Dann Purvis would probably write such an affadavit.

Also, another thing in your favor is, as someone else pointed out, it IS a government employee, and he/she IS dealing with taxpayer's money, not his own ... the squeaky wheel getting the grease rule applies here ... make it preferable for the USPS employee to pay up rather than put up with you. Pick your times ... when you aren't doing anything else ... having a cuppa joe, call him ... he'll be busy doing something important like playing online games and won't want to be bothered ... basically, be a pest, but only when it's convenient for you.

BubbaBob

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Thanks guys. I couldn't make it to the Post today, way too busy with insurance adjusters and contractors. Still dealing with the fire hassles.

I'll get to the Awful tomorow. I need to brush up on my ebonics :rolleyes:

[BULLSEYE BILL]

The origional question here was "Who files the insurance?"

After spending nearly an hour at the Post Awful, I now know why the shipper decided that I should be the one to file.

The postal employees were at a loss as to why I was the one making a claim and not the person who bought the insurance.

According to the employees, (I have very little faith in their compentence), the shipper (the person who takes the package to the Post and buys the insurance), is the one who should file the forms for compensation.

I was allowed to fill in the portion of the form that needed my information, but they would have to send the forms to the shipper for them to finish filling it out. The shipper also has to authorize the payment to be made to the second party, that's me.

The postal employees were not certain at all wether the claim would be approved. That decision would be made in St. Louis and I would be notified at a later date.

When making a claim at the receiving end, one needs to take the invoice, proof of payment records, and ALL shipping materials. You also need the origional insurance payment receipt from the Post given to the shipper. The forms are filled out and sent to the shipper to be completed and payment authorized. Then all that is sent to the main insurance center in St. Louis.

Keeping my fingers crossed makes it hard to type. :(

[ikeepbees]

Well,

I'm batting a thousand this year. I just today picked up less than half of the packages I ordered from Bolling (2 months late), and also received a letter from PBA refunding my money and a nice letter explaining what Dann has explained earlier in this post, and that they would be unable to fill my queen order. Ouch.

I am happy that they at least took the time to contact me and let me know there was going to be a problem.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Well, and the rest of the story.

After many conversations with the shipper and the Post Awful, I had come to the conclusion that I was not going to be reimbersed for my loss by either the Post or Purvis (as he so kindly offered to do last year). Then out of the blue, last Friday, I recieved a check from the Post Awful!

Another revelation. Having been sold out of queens for the year a month ago, now my order was accepted for twenty at the end of July!

Is this a great country or what? ;)

[Sundance]

I stopped using USPS after experiances like yours. Queens cooked so hard they melted into the candy!! Great you got a check at least. But a year!! Basturds.

Now only UPS overnight will do. Not a problem since. Worth the extra $$$.

[ April 20, 2006, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Sundance ]

[power napper]

The Post Office will have to raise the price of stamps again for all the costs they have incurred over this episode Bullseye! :confused:

[Ruben]

My first two packages of bees are being shipped out USPS next Friday, You've got me worried. After all of the planning and excitement builing all winter to get started, I don't think I could handle it if my bees come in dead.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Fear not Ruben. The lesson learned is when accepting any shipment from any shipper is to inspect it immediatly in front of the delevery agent. Do not sign for a delivery until you are sure that it is not damaged. Even then, if the packaging is in any way abused, make the deliverer make a note that it is. That way you will have a case for hidden damage if there is any. I, and most beekeepers, have had good results with package deliveries, but there are a few exceptions and a few of those could be headded off with careful inspection upon delivery.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>The Post Office will have to raise the price of stamps again for all the costs they have incurred over this episode

Well they did increase the postage the first of the year didn't they?