sticky board test

[kenr]

I did A 24hour sticky board test with my two hives and on my strong hive I counted 40 mites and on my weak hive I counted 15 mites should I treat or do another test later.This is new packages installed this year.Also on my weak hive they were five dead bees on the board is this normal.

[drobbins]

ken

for new packages this year that sounds worrysome
I'd do something about it, what have you been planning to do?

Dave

[George Fergusson]

I'd say both hives are at risk. I wouldn't be too worried about a strong hive dropping 15 mites, but in a weak hive, that could represent a significant mite population. 40 mites a day in any case is a lot of mites, enough to be very concerned about. I'd get both hives on a treatment program of your choice and keep monitoring.

5 dead bees on the landing board is not uncommon, the weak hive probably doesn't have the population to handle the undertaking chores. A strong hive would get rid of those dead bees in a hurry. I'd be on the lookout for bees with deformed wings.

[kenr]

I don't want to use aspian stripps because of what I've read and heared about what it does to the queen.api-life maybe since this is my first year at this I would appreciate any help also I'm regressing these bees and although I'm not going organic I still don't want to contamate the wax with any chemicals.THANKS for any help

[George Fergusson]

I hesitate to make specific recommendations for treatments because it's a personal thing and mileage may vary- what works well for one person may not work well or be acceptable to another.

That said, I'd use vaporized oxalic acid and/or powdered sugar given the time of year. Later in the fall after brood rearing had stopped I'd use oxalic acid drip. I agree about Apistan, I've never used it and don't plan to start anytime soon. I've never used formic acid but might consider it, I understand it's fussy about temperature.

Given your mite load and the time of year, your hives are clearly at risk. I won't say it's too late to do anything, but in spite of your efforts, your hives may not make it. I hope they do. Search this site and you'll find lots of information about mite treatments. Others will give you their suggestions. Good luck!

[kenr]

I did an powder sugar drop on my hives today 1/2lb per hive is this enough and I plan to do another Sat or Mon.I also learned something that I'll do from now on they are almost out of honey I would'nt have thought that as we just came off sourwood it must have been A bust for necture this year so I'll check in the middle of Aug. to see how there honey stores are.I made up some 1-1 sugar water is this fine or should I go 2-1 thanks.

[kenr]

How often would you do A sugar treatment.

[iddee]

I would go stronger than 1:1.

[2rubes]

Hi, I would dust your hives with powdered sugar every 5 days this late in the season. You should do this 4 times, which should capture most of the mites. If you do a 24 hour test, do it 4 or 5 days after you use powdered sugar, your mite count stays higer because of grooming. I have instructions and pictures here
http://countryrubes.com/instructionspage4.html
Sincerely,
Janet

[George Fergusson]

>they are almost out of honey

Heavily mite infested hives usually don't forage well.

[kenr]

Folks I did another sticky board test yesterday and looked today.My findings were on my weak hive I counted about six mites and on my strong hive the one that had around 40 to 50 mites it looks about the same amount as last week if I can tommorow I'm going to do another sugar treatment on the infested hive.ONE QUESTION is 1/2lb of powder sugar enough for three med,hivebodys it did'nt seem to be last week I'm going to do all three hivebodys separate unlike I did last week where I poured the sugar down the third hivebody and let it work it's way down the frames.

[sierrabees]

That's the best way to do it. It's doubtfull that the space between the frames would line up through three boxes, so the bottom super likely didn't get much on the bees. I use about a cup of sugar in a sifter on each super, then brush it as thoroughly as I can between the frames. I start with the bottom, add each super after I finish the one below, treat that one over the top of the first, and work my way up. I find that a lot of bees will cluster around the entrance when I am finished and If most of them don't look dusted I try to throw a little on them too.

[2rubes]

I try to dust the bees as late in the day as possible, most of the field force is in, but if I must dust in the day, I put a pile of powdered sugar on the landing in front of the entrance. Only do this during a honey flow, it promotes robbing during a dearth.
I orginially did not split our hives and found the same, that the sugar would settle on the top of the frames of the super below, more for the girls to clean up. I perfer to the sugar to not sit in the hive any longer than necessary. It does harden into icing, making it more diffcult for the bees to remove.
But, our first treatments last year, without splitting the supers, produced a lot (1400+) on the sticky board.

Janet

[Carl Holcomb]

Does anyone remember the old dry garden dusters. On one end there is a can with a spout in the lid and the other end looks like a hand pump. What I'm wondering is if this might work to apply the sugar.

[Dave W]

Carl Holcomb . . .

I remember them well smile.gif

When applying powdered sugar, you need more than just "dust" (IMO).

[kenr]

Thanks for the imput folks do you think that sugar alone will get my mite load down or should I be looking for something else. smile.gif

[iddee]

I don't think any one procedure will wipe out your mites. It is going to take a combination of things to save your hives. One I would look closely at is the fgmo and thymol. It takes 2 to 3 seconds to treat a hive without ever opening it. With sugar, SBB, fog, open ventilation, and any other ipm components you might want to try, you can be mite free, or so close that you won't have to worry about them.

[Michael Bush]

>Thanks for the imput folks do you think that sugar alone will get my mite load down or should I be looking for something else.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesvarroatreatments.htm

[Kevin M]

I tried sugar treatment this week, but i don't believe the sugar i bought from MannLake is the right one...My bees weren't looking duste at all when they came out of the entrance.What i bought was 100% sucrose sugar, called Beekeepers sugar...its more granulated than powedered...I asked this question elsewhere here on the forum, and someone said they just used Domino's powdered sugar from the from grocery..
is this okay to use...?i'm concerned about the cornstarch in sugar tat is said to mess up the bees digestive system...Can you folks tell me what sugar you are using for mite treatment and where you get yours...? I just feel after treating the bees with the Beekeepers sugar from MannLake, that i didn't get the job done right...someone who knows, please advise...thanks..kevin

[Kevin M]

Sorry for the double post folks, Mike G told me in the other post i posted,that he got the word from Domino's that there is a mimiual amount of cornstarch in there powdered sugar, i will try it....

[Hillside]

Use podwered sugar from the store. The starch doesn't seem to hurt anything when using it for mite treatments. The bees just don't get exposed to that much of it. Also, I tend to believe they can digest a certain amount of starch.

[2rubes]

Hi, you need very powderey powdered sugar and we've been using powdered sugar with cornstarch since March of last year (2005).
The sugar must be powdered very finely, not granulated. Someone actually discribed the size of the particles necessary, but regular powdered sugar meets the bill. The powder acually gets between the sticky pads of the varroa's feet and that causes the mites to detach or loosen. The bees groom themselves causing further detachment. We initally bought organic powdered sugar, but it was way too lumpy and I had to grind it up. After the honey was pulled, I went to ordinary grocery store powdered sugar in plastic 2 pound bags. Since I sell to a cooperative health food store, I asked them if the management if they minded if I continued to used non-organic sugar since I'm not dusting during the honey flows. They were so happy we were not using pesticides that they didn't care where the sugar came from.
Since I was told cornstarch could be a problem, I've monitored our bees for nosema and stomach problems and haven't seen any.
Janet

[Dick Allen]

One of the enzymes found in honey is diastase. Diastase is produced from bee's hypopharyngeal glands. Books mention that the purpose of diastase found in honey is unknown. Diastase amounts in honey have in the past been measured to determine if honey has been adulterated.

Diastase is an enzyme that converts starch to sugar. Starch is found in pollen if I'm not mistaken. Could the small amount of starch found in powdered sugar be converted into sugar by that enzyme if bees did consume it? There is a lot written on the internet by beekeepers warning other beekeepers that starch is bad for bees. That may be true if they are given a huge amount. But then again, there is only a tiny amount present in powdered sugar. Besides, bees won't be eating much anyway. Just look at your bottom board after dusting to see that.

[Kevin M]

Thanks everyone for sharing.. smile.gif I guess my local store is sold out , they have tons of granulated and confectioners sugar, but not a drop of powdered sugar...just my luck..lol

[2rubes]

Hi Kevin,
I believe confectioners sugar is the same as powdered sugar. Buy a box and see if its finely powdered.
Janet

[Kevin M]

Janet....i know that confectioners sugar is very powdery, i read somewhere Not to use confectioners sugar..! I figured the powder sugar everyones talking about was somewhere between granulated and confectioners...!This is a bit confusing, are any of you who say they are using powdered sugar talking about confectioners sugar...???? Thanks Janet....hopefully i'll get to the bottom of this before the mites take over...lol

[2rubes]

I just checked my bags. It says both, powdered and confectioner's right on the bag. I have some C&H bags and a Ralph's store brand, and one says 'Powdered Confectioner's Sugar' and on the second line Confectioners 10-X 3 cornstarch added to prevent caking'.
I've been buying whatever's on sale, so all different brands.
Anyone else?
Janet

[Dick Allen]

>i read somewhere Not to use confectioners sugar

Some people worry over the starch thing. Confectioners sugar is also referred to as icing sugar by beekeepers in some countries outside the U.S.

Confectioners sugar generally does contain corn starch. The C&H brand confectioners/powderd sugar used in the past on my bees has these listed ingredients: SUGAR, CORNSTARCH.

The cornstarch won't hurt your bees. Honest.

[ September 02, 2006, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Dick Allen ]

[Kevin M]

Thanks Janet and Dick, that explains why i couldn't find " Powdered Sugar" at the grocery store...Confectioners sugar is the powdered sugar everyones talking about...okay, got it.... smile.gif

[Dick Allen]

I see where confusion can enter the picture, I just came from a beekeeping catalog site, and they have this to say about the product they sell:

"......the finest granulated Beekeeper’s Sugar commonly known as "powdered sugar" (never to be confused with confectioner’s sugar, i.e. powdered sugar donut, which can harm your bees) in beekeeping circles. This sugar can be used for dry feeding, to make Bee-Pro® patties, mix with TerramycinTM or any other application calling for powdered sugar."

Bee careful about what to believe from someone selling something. As Chief Detective Inspector Morse of the TV series ‘Mystery!’ once remarked about a suspect--they can sometimes be quite economical with the truth. I can say, I've used confectioner's sugar without harm to my bees. After dusting them in the past, I never found piles of dead bees around my hives.

[Kevin M]

Yeah Dick, thats what i read on the website from the company i bought my Beekeepers Sugar from...
That product just doesn't stick to the bees,its granulated, so its kinda useless for mite dusting. I'm sure your right, that the confectioners sugar is basically harmless to the bees used in a dusting manor.. I do appriciate your's and Janets help in clearing the confussion,now i know... smile.gif

[LCbee]

Hi everyone,

I have noticed that the bees clean up the sugar all around the hive--including under the screened bottom board. I hosed down the area under the hive after the treatment, but still there are an unnerving number of bees down there tidying up.

I haven't been putting the sticky board back on, since ants clean up the mites before I have a chance to count them, but I can see that I should close it back up next time to keep the bees away from the area where the mites drop.

Any guesses as to how this might affect my treatment? Should I re-apply the sugar or just let it ride?

Thanks, for sharing any experience you might have had with this.

L

[2rubes]

I would put your sticky boards in to capture the powdered sugar. Although we noticed a lot of sufficated mites, the sugar doesn't kill the mites. And the sugar hardens into icing sugar, so any mites that are groomed off are just detached, not dead and will walk on top of the harden sugar. When removing trays of powdered sugar last year, every so often a bee would land on the tray and any loose mites would attach, quick as a wink.
You could be entering a dearth. I had mentioned before, when our honey flow was over, we experienced severe robbing. We took the tops off of all of our hives,(we had between 6 and 8) and that helps, but you could see they are now attracted to the sugar. We took a plastic bag with us and scraped the sugar off our boards with a plastic drywall knife (picture here http://countryrubes.com/informationpage3.html )
I would treat your hives again to see if the mites did reattach, at least once and pull it out after an hour. Most of the sugar will be on the board, check the number of mites. Then clean off the board and remove it again in 24 hours (don't oil). This will show the mites that the bees groom off. If you see a large number of mites, then do two more treatments. Better be safe going into winter. Less brood as your queen slows down and more mites entering each cell will devastate the health of your hive.
Janet

[LCbee]

Thank you, Janet!

L