Let's talk propolis economics.

[Tom Chaudoir]

I've seen the propolis traps for sale. They let light in. The bees hate that and plug the holes. You freeze the trap, give it a whack, and off comes the propolis. Bag it, sell it, and all is well.

Or is it? I'm asking because I haven't tried it and don't know. What is your experience?

I'm thinking about these factors, but there may be more:
</font> If the bees don't like the light, it might be disrupting something. If that's true: what is the down side that they are trying to correct?</font> Collecting the ingredients for propolis must be diverting labor. I've read that wax production consumes X pounds of honey per pound of wax. Is there a parallel cost to the hive for propolis production?</font> How much propolis does one get per trap-full? How long does it take to fill?</font> Would it be a good idea for a beek to switch to caucasions for the increased propolis yield? What would the drawbacks of that be?</font> Your question here.</font>
Thanks!

[Jim Fischer]

&gt; Bag it, sell it, and all is well.

I recall that a Canadian participant in either
BeeSource or Bee-L (I forget which forum)
had upwards of 5 kg of propolis looking for
a buyer at any price.

As I recall, he got no offers, so one may need
to add some serious value in the form of
post-processing the propolis into a value-added
product to be able to sell it at any decent price.

&gt; If that's true: what is the down side that
&gt; they are trying to correct?

What I was told was that spaces smaller than
a bee's head would be filled with propolis,
while spaces larger than a bee would be filled
with comb, leaving a "perfect" hive, with only
"bee space" between combs, and a well-sealed
shell around the combs. So, bees take the
simple instinct to "fill all cracks with propolis"
and turn it into a career of sorts.

&gt; Is there a parallel cost to the hive for
&gt; propolis production?

Sure, if nothing else, one has foragers that
are busy gathering propolis, rather than pollen
or nectar, but propolis is essential "mortar"
to bees. I have seen many hives that were
intact only because of propolis, hives that
would have otherwise disintegrated.

[merops_apiaster]

How much has been studied about propolis? What does people know about propolis properties? What about the pharmaceutical science and propolis?
Actually propolis is nearly exclusive for "visionaries".
I have used propolis applied in citrus trunks to control Phythophthora, the citrus is still alive.
http://album.miarroba.com/merops_apiaster/3/slide/

[PA Pete]

I just bought a bunch of propolis traps this spring. My thought was to use them only after the flow. I also don't plan to use them later in the fall as I feel it's important to let the bees "caulk" up the hive for winter. One of my hives didn't get a chance to do that very well last fall, so this past spring, driven rain entering the hive through the cracks between poorly fitting supers was more cause for worry than I prefer.

[ May 08, 2006, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: PA Pete ]

[MichaelW]

Some beekeepers in South America run their hives strictly for propolis production. They say that the more propolis the hive produces, the less honey. They however are using a different kind of trapping system (forgot the name) I would not think the top mount US propolis traps would be putting that much of strain on the hive, however thats not based on any personal observations or research.

[Tom Chaudoir]

Jim said, in part:

...had upwards of 5 kg of propolis looking for a buyer at any price.There are ads in Bee Culture. "Send us your scrapings." As I understand it the price floats at around $5/pound. That may be wrong.

Let's just say that it's accurate. If I lose 2 pounds of honey to make one of propolis, it seems like a good deal. Now consider that I don't have to extract, strain, store, bottle, or market the stuff. That might make it worth 3, or even 4 pounds of honey.

Propolis from a trap is going to be more pure than scrapings and could bring more. Beats me. I'm just guessing. Nobody here is doing this?

[wayacoyote]

Tom,
Just to clarify, I'm sure that the trap goes under an outer cover which will already be keeping light out. The trap gives more surfaces at the proper spacing to induce propolizing.

As for $5/lb, I've scrapped a lot for propolis, making sure to do it over newspaper so I could catch every speck, collecting even the "gold dust." Granted I don't run over 10 hives and haven't used a trap, but the hassel of using so much care to collect the slightest grain of propolis has netted me a whopping amount of approx. 1/2 cup of propolis after 3 years of scraping and storing it. So anyone who wants to tempt me to collect and send them my seasonal SCRAPPINGS will have to pay more than $25/ lb to get mine. "Gold dust" I hadn't thought of it before writing this reply, but that's an honest discription of how much effort I've put into it.

Comparing honey collection to propolis scrapping, my money is in the honey! Lots easier to uncap 2 frames, extract them, bottle them, and sell them than to catch every speck of propolis while scraping end pars and frame rests.

Waya

[MichaelW]

I believe, user "Joel" regularly collects AND sells propolis using the top mount traps. Do a search, he describes price and amounts collected in a post somewhere.

[PA Pete]

Here are a couple of past threads with interesting info:

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004558#000019

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003727#000008

[Tom Chaudoir]

Thanks, Pa,

I sure wish I could read Spanish. This (http://www.apicultura.com.br/forum/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=483&highlight=pr%F3polis) looks like the ultimate propolis trap. Google translator didn't help. I can't tell where the traps are placed on the hive or guess at the dimensions.

It looks like they get sticks instead of chunks/flakes. Very nifty.

[PA Pete]

That's cause it's Portugese smile.gif I lived in New Bedford MA for a while and suspected it might be smile.gif

Here's what the first post says using Babelfish to translate:

"Good Jadilson afternoon, I collecting use of própolis type frame, for the comfort to cut the própolis in free house of the bees and of a possible contamination of the same one, make weekly collection. I store using film for preservation of food, intercalate a strap of the other to prevent that they glue, I place inside of a plastico bag I forbid the air inlet and I place in freezer, I go to annex photos of the collector and of the própolis ready to go I stop freezer. One I hug,"

I think the pictures tell it all! Looks to me like he made up a couple of supers with sections in front where he could insert those slotted "trap" sections - pretty ingenious. I guess the bees don't like so much "top entrance" and propolyze them up (must be strong hives!). He can then remove them and replace with empty ones to start the process again. Pretty nifty!

[Kyle]

I haven't done this myself, but I'm planning on gathering propolis as buckfast are apparently notorious for using it. To make any money off of it I would say you need to process it into varnish, ointment or tincture

[MichaelW]

Yes thats the ultimate propolis trap used in south america to collect "green propolis". Hives with those traps are managed for propolis production ONLY. "green propolis" brings a premium price in Asian countries, but you have to have a certain plant to make green propolis. Our propolis is different. I would think the traps would work here, but your price for propolis must be high enough to give up your honey crop, if your talking strictly economics.