confusing split

[Hillbillynursery]

I made a split back on the 19th of March and yesterday was the 25th. I had checked for queen cells on the 22 and none were started. So I thought I would add some more eggs but the queen had laid in the queen cells that the parent(the queen who I wanted all the offspring from)colony so I put the frame in the nuc that had the queen cells with eggs in them. I started out yesterday checking the pollen and honey stores of the nuc. I noticed the frame that had the queen cells and they had been tore down. I found eggs then looking further found a beautiful young queen. I opened the parent hive and found the old queen and a sealed queen cell which was used to make another split. When I have taken frames for the splits I have been adding foundation.

My theory is that I either over looked the young queen on the frames that I put in the nuc or shook her in off the other frames. How else could they have a young laying queen? was the question I kept asking myself. Now here is the questions for you more experienced beekeepers. Is this hive trying to swarm as the queen is laying in every empty cell Or are they trying to supersede her?

I am thinking of moving her to a nuc and let the hive requeen itself. I thought this might stop the problem if it is a swarming issue. And yet may buy me some time if the queen is failing to produce pherimones(sp) as she is not failing in any other way(full brood nest and drones only in drone cells).

[Michael Bush]

>My theory is that I either over looked the young queen on the frames that I put in the nuc or shook her in off the other frames. How else could they have a young laying queen? was the question I kept asking myself. Now here is the questions for you more experienced beekeepers. Is this hive trying to swarm as the queen is laying in every empty cell Or are they trying to supersede her?

Where were the queen cells? On the bottom of the frames? Hanging off the sides of the frame? Swarm cells are usually on the bottom of the frames

One likely possibility is that they were superceding the queen and there was a mother/daughter both laying in the hive at the time.

If they were swarming the swarm would have left with the old queen before the new queens emerged, but apparently there was already two laying queens in the hive. Of course the nuc didn't try to raise a queen because they have one. The old hive is probably trying to supercede the old queen by building more cells.

That's my best guess from what you've given us.


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited March 26, 2004).]

[Curry]

I just started seeing drones for the first time today (and I've really been looking). And, assuming it takes two weeks for them to mature enough to mate, isn't it a little early to start raising a queen?

Believe me, I'm chomping at the bit to makes splits also, but it's better to wait til you're absolutely sure you'll have properly-mated queens.

[Michael Bush]

Lots of drones or an occasional drone? I wait until I don't have any problems spotting drones. If I have to look for them I figure there aren't enough yet.

[Hillbillynursery]

Thanks guys. About drones I saw them 3 weeks ago. I have no problem spotting them when opening the hives. The cells are mostly on the bottoms but some are to the ends of the frame up in the middle. The other hive was starting queen cells before I made the split but since I have given them more space and taken some bees they have stopped.

I could not find anything that said the old queen left before the new queens emerged. If that is true they are trying to supersede her. If I place the old queen in a nuc will it help keep her around longer as I wanted all my queens from her?

The other hive was the one that I requeened by walkaway split last year for being aggressive and is still not as calm as I would like. Since I can not purchase queens for a month or more(everyone booked) I really need this queen as my breeder for now.

Thanks again