Russian and Starline comparison

[IndianaHoney]

I'm trying to decide if I want to stick with starlines, or switch to Russians.

My goals are:
Honey production
Expansion
Mite control
Overwintering in a northern climate

I have the experience with Starlines. Does anyone have experience with both of these breeds? And can you give me a comparison?

Thanks

[Michael Bush]

Where are you getting Starlines? I didn't think the program still existed. When I got them it was from Dadant & Sons, back in the 70's. They were very productive bees and the orignals were gentle. The next generation was ok, but not as productive and not as gentle. They were just good Italians.

The Russians I've had were more frugal (like carniolans) and not as calm as the Starlines. The Russians weren't vicious, but they did get a little excited and would start headbutting sooner than gentle Italians. If they were Italians I'd expect to get stung, but the Russians seem to do a lot of other things than sting, like headbutting and hair pulling. The Russians are more prone to shut down brood rearing in a dearth and to winter with a smaller cluster.

[IndianaHoney]

I have gotten several starlines from a local beekeeper in my area. He gets starline queens from some supply store somewhere here in Indiana. There are also several nuc dealers in Indiana that have starlines. I'll find out where this store is and if they are still pure.

I'm also considering Buckfast bees if I can find them. I read that the Russians may give me a large problem with swarming.

Basicly I'm unhappy with the starlines. They have produced great crops, but overwintering in Indiana has been a pain. They do get strong durring spring buildup, but they go into winter with a large cluster and eat up their stores too fast. This seems to happen in 50% of hives that are overwintered in two deeps.

I do have some starlines that seem to overwinter well, I will keep them, and I might raise some queens from them. But for the most part, they stink at wintering in northern climates.

I'm looking for something that has compairable honey production to starlines, and overwinters well in the north, and not too swarmy. I've only used Starlines and Cordovan. By the way, the Cordovans seem to be worse than the Starlines.

[Michael Bush]

Have you considered New World Carniolans?

[Brent Bean]

I agree with Michael, NWC would be a better choice over Buckfast, I started out with them but because they are considered a hybrid when they supersede the original queens you can end up with some undesirable traits. I have NWC from Strachan queens out of California and I rate them as A+. They are dark bees and will forage in colder wetter weather than other breeds. They are quiet on the comb when working and give you a good honey crop along with good winter abilities.

[IndianaHoney]

I was just reading about them last night. I liked what I read. How does their honey crop compair to Italians?

[AkHeavenlyHoney]

I winter over at -62F. No heat, no artificial anything. We tried the Russians, YUK! They shut down whenever a cloud appeared. They were so conservative. No honey crop to speak of. If you want a pet, buy a horse! They also just about made me get out the nuclear waste to do them in for their temper! Our "Alaskan Producer" original bees came from a Canadian area and were wintered there successfully for three generations. We average about 100# per season with some going over 300# per hive. We are trying some hives stored in Conex's (truck Vans about 55' long) and we have been wintering in root cellar type of arrangements. They do well there. In the bush of Alaska there are very bitter winters. We recorded -65 F last winter and the hives came out great in the spring. We requeened and they were off to the races. Additionally, we requeen in the fall on quite a few hives. The jury is out on that test. I think it will be good but I hesitate to swear by it just yet. We did it again this past fall and we will know the results this June or so.

[AkHeavenlyHoney]

Also, we are going to take the bull dozer this summer and dig out trenches and back the "conex" trailers into the ground trench and build bee rooms over each trailer. We have been able to get these trailers for just about nothing and they are weather proof and strong. We will put in the ventilation system and monitoring equipment with a storm front entrance that will allow the fork lift to drive into the trailer and load/unload the pallets. My Grandfather in Sweden had arrangement like this from 60+ years ago and there were no package suppliers in those days. It worked wonderfully so I am not doing anything new, just finally learning from my previous generations.

[Brent Bean]

Italians are better comb builders, NWC don’t use as much propoilis, honey crops are to close to call, I like both breeds, actually I probably really have a blend of both.

[IndianaHoney]

Brent Bean, with the blend of NWC and Italians, do you usually get the benifits of both? NWC overwintering good, Italians building good comb, etc.