revamping the hive

[yankeeingenuity]

We have our bees in a hive with 2 deeps, an excluder, then a smaller box for cut comb honey. We want to switch over to all smaller supers because the deeps are too heavy for us. We also want to switch to starter strips. The deeps have plastic foundation in them right now. Can someone please explain step-by-step how to make these changes? Thanks, Paris

[PA Pete]

I am going to all mediums this year, prefer starter strips, and have three packages that were installed on April 1. I'm a few weeks ahead of you, so hopefully I can give you at least a couple of good suggestions.

I had fully drawn deeps from last season and felt the packages would benefit from being installed on fully-drawn comb, so I installed them in my deeps rather than put them in brand new mediums with starter strips.

Once they'd established themselves, I added a medium on top with all starter strips, which the bees of course would not move up into. I finally got them to move up and start drawing comb in the medium by pulling a deep frame with brood and adhering bees from below, leaving that slot empty, and placing it in the medium directly above it's old spot, so it could hang down into the empty slot below.

This worked great but as expected the bees built a significant amount of comb under the bottom bar of the deep frame. In hindsight I think next time I'll instead pull a side frame from the deep, open up a slot in the center of the brood frames, and insert a medium frame with starter strip. I might do two (not adjacent to each other) if it's warm enough and there are bees enough to cover the brood. Once the medium frame(s) are drawn, I'd pull them, push the brood frames back together, put back the stolen deep frame(s), add a medium super and put the drawn and brood-containing medium frames in the center of it along with a bunch of starter strip frames.

Note that when you pull the medium frames, you'll likely have some comb hanging beneath the bottom bar, but this should only be max 3" deep, unlike the 6" deep or so I had to deal with on mine.

Once you have some drawn medium frames, getting the rest drawn and adding new medium supers should be much easier.

I don't know if you'll be able to completely get rid of the deep this season - you might need it to overwinter the colony, but if it's on the bottom, by next spring the colony should have moved up into the two mediums above it, and you should be able to remove it.

Hopefully this all makes sense - let me know if not and I'll try to clarify smile.gif

[Michael Bush]

Every chance you get pull out empty deeps and deeps of honey. If you can't empty the whole box (because of brood) put some mediums in the deep between some of the deeps. Add medium boxes on top. Eventually they will either start using the mediums (in the deep) or move up and start using the mediums, or both. When you have some brood either on the mediums on top or on the mediums in the deep, you can move them up above with the queen and put an excluder on top of the deep. Now the queen can't lay in the deeps. Later you can harvest the deep after the brood emerges and remove the box. Or you can just cut out some (or all) of the brood from some of the deep frames and tie it into the mediums and put the excluder on top of the deep until the rest of the brood emerges (if you left some).

There are many ways you can do this.

I like all eight frame mediums. That works well and the boxes don't weigh more than 48 pounds full of honey.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm

You can also consider horizontal hives.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm

[Tia]

Michael and PA Pete, thanks for this! I thought it was a no-no to put medium frames in a deep box! I accidentally did it last year, and my girls built a mess from the bottom bar to the slatted rack! I guess next time I'll just keep an eye on it so it doesn't get too out of hand. This method sure will make it easier and faster to do the conversion. Thanks again.

[yankeeingenuity]

I don't want to seem incredibly wimpy but, I can't lift the middle deep to even *get* to the bottom deep. That box is too much to lift. So, I can replace frames in the middle deep but what can I do with the bottom deep? If I just replaced all of the frames at once I could then lift it to get at the bottom box but that doesn't seem like the brightest idea I've ever heard! Any other suggestions? Thanks, Paris

[wayacoyote]

Paris,
Here's a plan:
Working in the top deep, move the frames one at a time to a deep set to the side looking for the queen. once you have her, set that frame aside. Once the top deep is empty, slap a queen excluder between it and the bottom deep and return the frames and queen. Provide a top entrance for drones to get out.
Now follow Michael's recommendations above.

Pete had 6 inches of comb on the bottom bar of the deep frame. That could possibly have been trimmed off and tied into a medium frame.

If you're using unwired foundation, you can cut it out of the Deep frames and get 2 combs to tie into medium frames.

For going with foundationless frames, simply insert such a frame between 2 frames of capped brood, and continue.

What Pete did was to essentially "bait up" the bees into the top box. That's not just a problem with foundationless frames, but also with frames of foundation sometimes. Baiting really helps and is most effective for me if the bait frame has brood.
Waya

[Michael Bush]

>I thought it was a no-no to put medium frames in a deep box!

Sort of.

> I accidentally did it last year, and my girls built a mess from the bottom bar to the slatted rack!

They will build on the bottom, but it's one way to get some brood in a medium frame to bait them up.

>I don't want to seem incredibly wimpy but, I can't lift the middle deep to even *get* to the bottom deep. That box is too much to lift.

Exactly.

> So, I can replace frames in the middle deep but what can I do with the bottom deep?

Like Waya says, move them a frame at a time.

> If I just replaced all of the frames at once I could then lift it to get at the bottom box but that doesn't seem like the brightest idea I've ever heard! Any other suggestions? Thanks, Paris

Even if you don't have a box to put them in you can pull them out and lean them against one another against something (a tree or another hive) and move the box.