HELP with two new hives.

[jamiev]

Both of my hives are two weeks in med. eight frame brood chamber, They were five frame NUCS. Queens were caged to protect during shipping. I removed both corks day three after reciept due to very cold wet weather the first two days.Feeding both hives 1 to 1 syrup
Easy one first. Today I found what seems to be a very heathly Queen in Hive 1 circled by her attending entourage. I also found the other three frames of small cell wired wax 60-70% drawn. . I think I saw eggs. I saw pollen cells, and also what seemed to be a lot of nectar/honey in a lot of other cells. This concerned me in the brood chamber. There was no emerging brood even though the five frames were loaded with tan colored cappings. Maybe they are not ready to hatch yet? I added the next eight frame brood chamber to hive 1 in that there was aprox 80% drawn comb in the first chamber. I have some dig. pictures but can't figure out how to post them.
Hive 2
Could not find queen anywhere and she is marked with a white spot of paint. Maybe she is hidden? I really looked hard. I'll check again in a day or two. Also last week this hive had 4 or five queen cells which I removed when i checked to see if the queen was released. Hope I did the right thing. There are now two large cells at the bottom of the frame but I can't tell if they are queen cells yet. There are many cells with the different colors, pollen right. I saw a few bees with pollen legs. Many cells are being filled with honey also. Not Good right? Some cells looked like there was something white? in the bottom. I could not tell what it was. Would cells with eggs seem "wet" in the bottom because if so then maybe i was mistaking those for honey cells due to that liquid appearance. Again I have some dig. pictures but can't post them. I am very new to this. I really need to know what to do next in Hive 2. I am not sure it is queenless. I hope all is well in Hive 1. Please advise. I'll keep trying to post pics.

[jamiev]

Here are the pictures of the one i call hive 1. Queen seems to be ok

http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/jamiev_photo/Hive%201/?

[JZD]

sounds like you are talking about brood in the cells. Honey in the brood chamber where on the frame? You may have lost a queen and the large cells sound like queen cells. * Many cells are being filled with honey also. Not Good right?*
sounds like you are talking in the brood chamber.
If so could have been a swarm as the queen is gone and swarm queen cells were in the hive. Cells with eggs after a bit they are wet looking with white larve in them. I would get yourself a book to view what you are looking at. There are many out there to buy or check out. Many of your questions will be answered. By simply comparing pictures of what you have seen in your hive.
It could help determine what you have seen.
You could also just look on line at the pictures of what goes on in the hive.

[jamiev]

Thanks JZD I am getting some pictures. Have read lots of books but hands on is the best way I can learn now.
Here are pictures of my Hive 2 I can't find queen here.

http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/jamiev_photo/?

[Branman]

yeah, definitely looks like you lost the queen. You probably should have left the queen cells so they could requeen naturally. You can take a frame of eggs from the other hive and let them again make a new queen or you can requeen. There's also a chance that there might be a virgin running around, but if you took off the every peanut-like queen cell, probably not. The white stuff looks like pollen.

[ June 03, 2006, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Branman ]

[jamiev]

Thanks Branman
I think i have to wait to be sure I have a frame of eggs from the other Nuc/new Hive. When i do find eggs then I am transferring the whole frame, eggs, capped brood, honey etc right? I am not yet sure enough which they are. The queen just started working.
Maybe I should also order one quickly?

I need some good pictures of all the various types and stages of cells so I can make more intelligent observations.
Any comments on the hive with the queen?

[Michael Bush]

Sounds like they lost their queen, tried to replace her and you destroyed their only chance to do so. You certainly aren't alone, and I'm sure it's the beekeeping books that convince people to do this, but may I ask why you destroyed the queen cells? May I ask why anyone ever destroys queen cells? I don't understand the obsession people have with destroying queen cells. Unless you have a VERY good reason thought out for why you are doing it, I would NEVER do it and odds are, even if you've though it out, your reason probably isn't good enough either. smile.gif Odds are, whatever your reasons, you'll end up queenless.

But now you probably have a hopelessly queenless hive (your doing) and you need to resolve it. The best solution is probably a frame of brood just in case there's a virgin queen that you missed.

Cells being filled with honey isn't a bad sign. It's only a bad sign when the queen has no where to lay.

[jamiev]

Michael, When i destroyed the queen cells, there was only a candy plug and a day or two between the caged queen and the hive. I thought she was the one to focus on so the others would not be needed. I know now that this is not a good reason but like i said, the books have been my only source of education and obviously its not sufficient. And yes, I did read it in several of them. I also read a lot on this forum and to date have taken all of your advice and am grateful for it. Believe I am very upset about my blunders

Regarding a frame of young brood from the other hive, I need to make sure there are eggs on it so they can make a new queen in case there is not a virgin queen I may have missed? do I understand this correctly? Should I order a queen just in case? Thanks a lot

[Michael Bush]

I see. SO you still thought you had a qheen in the cage. Apparently, though, the bees had already focused on the cells and rejected the queen.

What you really need to make sure of, you probably don't have the "eye's" for yet, and that's larvae that just hatched today. But if there's open brood and eggs there probably is larvae the right age and if there isn't there will be soon.

My guess is there probably IS a virgin queen from a cell you missed which is why they rejected your caged queen. If they don't make a queen, you don't need one. If they do make a queen, then you have one. If you wish to order a queen "just in case" what will you do with her if they already have a queen? If you wish to build a two frame nuc to put the queen and a frame of brood and a frame of honey in you could, but you only have two nucs for resources and that will spread them a bit thin won't it?

[Branman]

I'm not exactly sure of the timing of the events...

You're saying that there were already queen cells in the nuc when you put the queen cage in?

Was the queen transported in with the bees(in the cage in with the bees)? or in a separate container?

After a few days a good thing to check before taking the cork out of the queen cage is to check the bees reaction to the cage. If they're furiously biting the screen and mobbing the screen, then you know there's problems. If they're leisurely walking to and fro across the cage and trying to feed the queen and attendants through the screen, then chances are they've accepted her. Of course I swear I've seen one bee feed the queen while the another furiously bites the screen from the same hive which gets you nowhere smile.gif .

edit: Looks like MB is already on it smile.gif

[ June 03, 2006, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Branman ]

[Cyndi]

I have a question...sorry to butt in...but,

What happens if you destroy all the queen cells, end up honey bound and queeless? Will the hive eventually work itself out?

When I was stealing brood from my one hive to put into my packaged bees hive 2, recently, I noticed lots of queen cells on the frames of brood I took. I destroyed those before I put them into the new packaged hive because I didn't think it would be beneficial. But, since I took alot of the queen cells from hive number 1 (I know there were more than 8 from the 3 frames of brood that I counted), I went into the brood box twice trying to add empty frames to keep them from swarming, I wonder how much damage I did. I know this set them back and this is my question. Just how often do they keep rearranging and re-queening themselves? I didn't see much brood in hive 1, but there are sure alot of bees in that hive. Although, it really doesn't matter because I put another super on and decided I wasn't going near the brood chamber in hive #1 again until fall. Well, it matters, but I don't want to bother them anymore, unless I absolutely have to. They are building those supers up very nicely, there are 2 supers on right now and sourwood flow is just around the corner. I really want some honey this year.

[Michael Bush]

> Just how often do they keep rearranging and re-queening themselves?

If you keep the brood nest open and don't have chemical contaminants, judging by my hives, about once every three years they will requeen themselves.

[jamiev]

Branman, Queen was transported in the Nuc in the cage. When i pulled the cork plug, the bees seemed not to be clawing at the cage. The One Nuc / now hive, is nearly fully drawn,and i found the queen. I will look for her eggs in a day or so. It is raining and very cloudy here today and tomorrow so I think I'll wait for some sun to help me find eggs, /larvae
Michael, you are absolutely right, I do not yet have "the eyes" for spotting and identifying eggs larvae, etc ...properly. I am looking for more pictures online and hope it will help some.
Also as you point out, Why, and what would I do with a queen if I do not need one. You are correct, my resources are limited so that rules out the small NUC.