I Cut My Brood Nest to Mediums, Will It Work?

[GeeBeeNC]

Well, I did it. You may remember I bought one established hive in one deep last August. It's been going gangbusters. They superceeded the queen in October. Yesterday was about 70 deg f here so I did an inspection. 6 frames had brood, a good full pattern and two frames of pollen and honey. Two frames of drawn comb on the edges were virtualy empty. I have two mediums on top both are over half full of honey made from fall fed syrup,

So here is what I did. I took each deep frame and cut it down to a medium, sawing through the side bars and then cutting across the comb with a knife. I then placed the eight frames of brood, honey and pollen in a medium box in their previous position, moved three frames to each edge of the body and then inserted an empty frame with starter strip and finally two frames of brood in the center.

So my configuration is this:

Honey, Pollen frame
Brood,honey, pollen (B,H,P) frame
B,H,P frame
Starter strip frame
B,H,P frame
B,H,P frame
Starter strip frame
B,H,P frame
B,H,P frame
Honey, Pollen frame

On top of that I put the two supers and an inner cover. I added the empty deep hive box above the inner cover and stacked the cut comb on the inner cover and hung the two drawn comb frames in the box for cleaning. I finished with another inner cover and a telescoping top. The ladys were amazingly gentle throughout the whole ordeal!

What think ye?
Will this work?
Is there anything I need to fix quickly?
How long should I leave the cut comb for cleaning?
There was some brood in the cut comb, what is its fate?

I'm expecting the bees will ignore it and it will die but I don't want to waste it if they will rear it. I have plenty of bees so it won't hurt the hive if it is lost.

This mild winter sure has things ahead of schedule. I thought they would move the nest up before they started raising brood. But that's not the way it worked.

[Michael Bush]

>So here is what I did. I took each deep frame and cut it down to a medium, sawing through the side bars and then cutting across the comb with a knife.

So there is no bottom bar? This is ok, but you do realize they will burr this down to the next box. Unlike PermaComb where the line of least resistance is always the burr and not the plastic, you may have some comb break when you pry the boxes apart. You might want to cut another 3/8" out and put a bottom bar back on. I just cut the ends off of the bottom bars (that I cut off of the deep frames) and put them in between the ends and made a butt joint.

>I then placed the eight frames of brood, honey and pollen in a medium box in their previous position, moved three frames to each edge of the body and then inserted an empty frame with starter strip and finally two frames of brood in the center.

So you put an empty frame in the middle of the brood nest? where are the "two frames of brood in the center" from? I'm not in North Carolina, but it would be early to be breaking up the brood nest here unless they've built up well. Did the bees quikckly fill the starter strip frame with festooning bees?

>Honey, Pollen frame
Brood,honey, pollen (B,H,P) frame
B,H,P frame
Starter strip frame
B,H,P frame
B,H,P frame
Starter strip frame
B,H,P frame
B,H,P frame
Honey, Pollen frame

I'd just call the BHP a brood frame. But if they are strong enough this should work fine.

>On top of that I put the two supers and an inner cover.

Kind of early for supers isn't it?

>I added the empty deep hive box above the inner cover and stacked the cut comb on the inner cover

Where is the cut comb from? Do you mean comb full of honey or frames with thin surplus to MAKE cut comb? Is this the comb you cut off the bottom of the frames? I assume that's what it is.

> and hung the two drawn comb frames in the box for cleaning.

Wet? Dirty?

>I finished with another inner cover and a telescoping top. The ladys were amazingly gentle throughout the whole ordeal!

Usually they are if you're slow and gentle.

>What think ye?

Depending on the bee's strength, they may do very well.

>Will this work?

What are you hoping to accomplish? Work, I assume, means it will accomplish your goals. What were your goals?

>Is there anything I need to fix quickly?

I'd just worry about the bottom bar on the frames.

>How long should I leave the cut comb for cleaning?

Until it's clean? smile.gif

>There was some brood in the cut comb, what is its fate?
>I'm expecting the bees will ignore it and it will die

That's what I would expect, but it may also get some bees hanging out up there to keep it warm who may not fair so well. I would cut the brood out of it and feed it to the chickens just to prevent that from happening.

> but I don't want to waste it if they will rear it.

Then cut it out and tie all the pieces into a frame and put it in the brood nest.

> I have plenty of bees so it won't hurt the hive if it is lost.

But it will help if it's not.

>This mild winter sure has things ahead of schedule. I thought they would move the nest up before they started raising brood. But that's not the way it worked.

They do what they want. smile.gif I've never known them to read the beekeeping books. smile.gif

[Michael Bush]

I should point out, that as long as the combs with no bottom bars are in the bottom box, they will probably not burr the bottom down.

[GeeBeeNC]

Thanks Michael for the quick and thoughtful reply. I need to learn the quality of a good writer to not assume the reader knows what is inside my head. So fixing my ommissions and asking questions based on your comments:

So there is no bottom bar?

You answered that one in your supplementary post. I was thinking that these would remain in the bottom box until cycled out as regression progresses. Is that reasonable? How long might the frames remain in the system assuming a normally timed regression regimen?

So you put an empty frame in the middle of the brood nest? where are the "two frames of brood in the center" from?

I only have one hive. My brood nest is six frames wide and as big as a football. I expected the nest to expand upward into the First medium above of stores but it has stayed down in the bottom box.

Kind of early for supers isn't it?

These are stores of honey made from fed syrup from last fall. Both mediums are over 1/2 full. The lower one was full and they have eaten from it. The upper is about the way it started the winter.

Is this the comb you cut off the bottom of the frames? I assume that's what it is.

Yep.

Wet?

10-4

What are you hoping to accomplish? Work, I assume, means it will accomplish your goals. What were your goals?

First off I want to get into all mediums. That was my plan from the beginning but I got this hive in one deep last August. So I went wwith it. I expected the brood nest to rise to the bottom medium of stores and be able to cut and tie the remaining brood into medium frames to eliminate my deep. But when I saw that the mild winter had enticed early brood and filled the bottom box I expected I needed to create a new plan which is what I described.

I also want to start the regression process.

I would cut the brood out of it and feed it to the chickens just to prevent that from happening.


Gee, the wife is still a little anxious about the bees. I don't think she'll go for chickens too!

Seriously though, is leaving that comb with the brood a detriment to the health of the hive?

It's probably clean by now and if that's best I'll remove it.

Thanks again for your response.

[Michael Bush]

>You answered that one in your supplementary post. I was thinking that these would remain in the bottom box until cycled out as regression progresses. Is that reasonable?

Sure. Maybe you can just add a bottom bar after you pull the frame.

>How long might the frames remain in the system assuming a normally timed regression regimen?

I just follow the bees. Feed in as much as they seem to be able to take good care of an pay attention to seasonal changes. About August (here) they will not recover as quickly. They'll be at the point where they are still doing things quickly but then suddenly about Septemeber or October they can't and sometimes you've pushed them too far. Just pay attention and be more conservative toward late summer.

>I only have one hive. My brood nest is six frames wide and as big as a football. I expected the nest to expand upward into the First medium above of stores but it has stayed down in the bottom box.

It probbaly will stay in the bottom until they really fill out the bottom box with brood.

>These are stores of honey made from fed syrup from last fall. Both mediums are over 1/2 full.

That might work. If they get where there are about half again as much bees as there are brood frames you could move two or three of the brood combs up into the top box and they will then take care of that and the brood nest will expand to the next box. Once they start rearing brood in the top box they will consume the honey pretty quikcly to make room. You also might want to uncap a couple of frames of the honey in the super so they will more readily move it to make room for brood in that box.

>First off I want to get into all mediums. That was my plan from the beginning but I got this hive in one deep last August. So I went wwith it. I expected the brood nest to rise to the bottom medium of stores and be able to cut and tie the remaining brood into medium frames to eliminate my deep. But when I saw that the mild winter had enticed early brood and filled the bottom box I expected I needed to create a new plan which is what I described.

Sounds like it will work ok.

>Seriously though, is leaving that comb with the brood a detriment to the health of the hive?

If some of the nurse bees stay up with it and try to care for it and get caught in a cold snap, it could be. I would have tiee the pieces into frames and put it in the brood nest. If they haven't already abandoned it you might do that yet. If they HAVE abandoned it, you may as well throw it out.