ooops

[DRJCKB]

I did an inspection of my hives today. I have had them for 10 days. Both hives seem to be very busy and have a lot of bees. In the one hive, I noticed that there were to queen cells near the top of the frame. I thought I had remembered to remove them... now, I am not so sure. It seemed to have plenty of brood, etc... I did not see the queen, though- in either hive. Do you think I should go back later this afernoon and look more diligently for her? I didn't really smoke the bees at all-- they didn't seem to mind me being there? Thanks!

D

[Scot Mc Pherson]

If they are building queen cells its because they have no queen. 10 days into the hive and the queen may have begun laying and then killed in an accident. Just let them raise the new queens. If you have extra bees from another hive, you could always shake them in there is this hive starts to look too week after the time it takes to raise a new queen.

[Mitch]

You say you did not see the queen.Removeing queen cells can be a mistake if you are not sure the queen is there. Is there a good brood patern?If you did remove the queen cells and the bees built more there is a reason.They may need a new queen for one reason or another she was killed or hurt If you do anything look for signs of the queen being there. Either the queen itself or eggs. Sometimes there is so much info in this site it gets very confuseing.Your hives are only 10 days old watch an see what the bees do. I am no pro at this but here is something i found to be very true.It is from The How To Do It Book Of Beekeeping By the late Richard Taylor.If you do not know what to do do nuthing the bees know what they are doing. Been there done that
Bob

[This message has been edited by Mitch (edited May 02, 2004).]

[DRJCKB]

Should I order a new queen? Should I wait until I look in next week? There is about 2 frames of capped brood but I didn't see any eggs or the queen... it was kind of cloudy so that may have contributed to me not seeing eggs. My other hive looks about the same- but, there were no queen cells. This is all very interesting, but what a way to start my new hobby... not knowing if I killed the queen, and/or killed her replacement http://www.beesource.com/ubb/frown.gif

D

[DRJCKB]

Actually, I was thinking--- I got my bees last Wednesday (10 days ago). When I picked them up, the beeman showed me the queen prior to putting in nuc box. I brought them home. I left the 4 frames in there until last Saturday (7 days ago). We put the remaining 5 frames and closed up. Today is 11 days since I saw the actual queen. There were queen cells present (2) capped with larva in it (I know because I removed it http://www.beesource.com/ubb/frown.gif ) Is my understanding that this would have taken 9-10 days? Thus my question is- if the queen was killed in tranport, would they have made a queen the next day? I am trying to do some detective work to learn and form a course of action... so, to recap... queen last saw 11 days ago... there was capped queen cell (with larva and white royal jelly) present today... true to assume this would have had to been laid the day after I saw the queen? Maybe she was killed in transport to their new home? Or maybe there is some issue with having 4 full frames with no where to go for 4 days? Trying to learn!

Thanks ya'all!

D

[Michael Bush]

>We put the remaining 5 frames and closed up. Today is 11 days since I saw the actual queen. There were queen cells present (2) capped with larva in it (I know because I removed it ) Is my understanding that this would have taken 9-10 days?

If you remove (or kill) a queen and there is brood of all ages then they will have a queen cell withing 24 to 48 hours, a CAPPED queen cell in five days (because they will start with a just hatched larvae that is already 3 days old).

>Thus my question is- if the queen was killed in tranport, would they have made a queen the next day?

A queen cell the next day, yes. And a capped cell in five.

>I am trying to do some detective work to learn and form a course of action... so, to recap... queen last saw 11 days ago... there was capped queen cell (with larva and white royal jelly) present today...

That you destroyed, right?

>true to assume this would have had to been laid the day after I saw the queen?

Not necesarily.

>Maybe she was killed in transport to their new home?

Possibly. Frames banging from swinging in the box could do that.

>Or maybe there is some issue with having 4 full frames with no where to go for 4 days?

Probably not that.

So now you have bees that you suspect are queenless. Knowing the bees they probably had a queen cell somewhere you missed and by now there is very likely a virgin running around the hive that will mate in a few days and start laying in a about a week. But then you MIGHT have gotten them all and there is no queen.

[DRJCKB]

Thanks, Michael

[DRJCKB]

So, capped queen cell within 5 days.. that makes sense. In the same hive there was larva present, capped brood, etc... so, does it make sense that one could back up using those clues? IE larva is 8-10 days old... so, one would assume there was a queen present 8-10 days ago? Which still would have been after they arrived home.. but, before I put the remaining frames in. I know most of this is academic, I am just trying to understand. What I have taken away from this is: 1.) the bees probably know what they are doing.

PS... is it worth looking to see if there are eggs (reopening the hive)... or should I wait until next week and go from there?

Thanks,
D

[Mitch]

Just to add Little here. Now i would wait 7 to 10 days and see if you do have a new queen.If you do not have a new queen and your other hive is still doing good.then you can either buy a new queen or take a frame if fresh eggs from the other hive. make sure the queen is not on the frame.brush off all the bees and put it in the queenless hive.They will make a new queen that way.Do you have any beekeeping books?I did the same thing you are doing now 4 years ago,no fun at all it all worked out.

[DRJCKB]

Hi Mitch,

I have Beekeeping for Dummies (how appropriate)... and some handouts from a weekend course I went to... I think I will wait until next weekend and see if I see any eggs. If not, I will order a new queen and go from there. The hive that is suspect also had some funny comb formations... I am glad I have two hive, so I can compare-- and also thankful for BB to answer my basic questions, thanks http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif

D

PS.. where is Napolian, OH? I grew up in N. Ridgeville, OH- which is near Lorain...

[Michael Bush]

I don't know what resources you have, but as mentioned, a frame of eggs gives the bees the opportunity to raise a queen if they are queenless, and if the aren't queenless it won't hurt anything.

[Mitch]

Napoleon is farthere west bout 125 miles S.W of Toledo.On my hive when i did the same i ended up putting a fame of eggs in and the made there own queen.Like i said i am no pro at bees. Just been there.I would wait to order a new queen. If you have a virgin queen they will kill the one you put in.If the bees in this queenless hive a gatherin nector and pollin i would suspect a virgin queen.The frame of fresh eggs would be the test to see if they make queen cells.Other wise you may be wasting money on a new queen.

[DRJCKB]

THE QUEEN LIVES http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif or at least there is one in the hive. I did an emergency inspection (had to add some drama>> LOL) before ordering a new queen. Today, I noticed a LOT of larva a lot of eggs and I actually SAW the queen lay an egg!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have been around the world many times and seen a lot of things... but, seeing the queen lay an egg and watching a baby bee eating her way to life... wowsa, truly amazing. The only thing was it was kind of cool today, 50 degrees, and the bees were not as "friendly" as they had been in the past. I try not to smoke... but, today I smoked a very little on the guard bees on the top of the frames, they were flying at me; I understand why they did... it was cold, I was in their space, etc.. but, I had not seen that before. I am just thankful the queen is there http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif Thanks for all your advice the past few days.

D

[Mitch]

Great that you have a queen. be carefull on cool days you might chill your brood and kill it.I watch my bees go in and out most every day.You can see alot just watching them.How often do you open your hive? I go 5 to 7 days and only then if i notice a problem.But then my first hive i could not help but lift the lid.Wait a few days befor you disturb them again and on a warmer day.In about 3 more weeks you will use your smoker a bit more there will be alot more bees.

PS i am getting 2 packages tomarrow

[DRJCKB]

Hi, I was trying to look once a week for my first year-- but, did this inspection to determine if I needed to order a new queen. It sure is fun to look in and see what is going on, but I know it sets them back and disturbs them. I guess I should have bought an observation hive to watch without opening http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif

D

PS.. I am trying to figure out when to put the next deep on.... probably in a week or so, things are looking pretty full... most (6-7/9) drawn, etc.

[Mitch]

Once a week is not that bad it is fun and a leaning deal to watch them.I wait till i have 7 frames full of bees to put the 2nd deep on.