the search for the "perefect" queen

[buford]

i have ten hives and several differnet queens. i know it's a big NO NO to have different races as close neighbors, but i haven't settled on a queen that i can use "across the board".

right now i have some buckfast (who haven't been requeened in about 4 years), some italians, a carniolian and a "west virgina" queen.

this year the italians (which, i've been told have a slow spring build up) built up like lightning, filled super with honey around the first of may and swarmed with it.

my carniolians (which are supposed to have a quick spring build-up, but will swarm if not given enough space) have filled 3.5 supers and are showing no signs of leaving.

so far, i like the carniolians. but i'd like a second (or 3rd or 4th) opinion before working toward having only one race in the yard.

thanks

[dcwilliams]

The New World Carniolans have my vote, esp for this region. I'm right outside of Charlottesville VA.

Chris

[Michael Bush]

> have ten hives and several differnet queens. i know it's a big NO NO to have different races as close neighbors

That's news to me. Why?

>this year the italians (which, i've been told have a slow spring build up) built up like lightning, filled super with honey around the first of may and swarmed with it.

Who said they have a slow buildup? Italians are "brood rearing fools".

>my carniolians (which are supposed to have a quick spring build-up, but will swarm if not given enough space) have filled 3.5 supers and are showing no signs of leaving.

The majority of the bees have not read the books.

>so far, i like the carniolians. but i'd like a second (or 3rd or 4th) opinion before working toward having only one race in the yard.

Why not keep them all for a while until you decide? I like the Carni's here. They are more frugal in the winter. They actually don't build up as fast as the Italians, but they build up ok and I don't think they swarm any more or less.

[buford]

i had heard, since italians are "short range" foragers and carniolians are "long range" foragers, that the italians will have a tendency to rob the other colonies between flows.

there is also the issue of bees that are more (or less) resitant to certain diseases and/or pests. i don't know what the carniolians are like in this regard (or if the other "resistant" bees are all they're cracked up to be).

my desire to have one race in the yard is an effort to simplify a little, to find the "best" (or at least "really good") queen for this area, and keep the gene pool a little "reliable" for a while (as much as that is possible anyway).

[Michael Bush]

Itlalians will rob the Italians just as much as the Carniolians.

I can understand wanting to simplify it to what works for you.

[buford]

thanks.

the carniolians seem pretty hearty. is there resistance to deiseases and pests pretty good or about the same as any other strain?

[cochran500]

"i had heard, since italians are "short range" foragers and carniolians are "long range" foragers"


Hey Buford,
Where does the piece of info come from?

[Chef Isaac]

For this area, since it is cooler most of the time, the caris do pretty well. I have some caris, some italians, a buckfast, and black tiger, and soon to be a purvias (sp?) brothers queen.

I actually like running hives with different types of queens. Its fun to document the changes accroding to the seasons and weather. For example, one day in March, I was visiting a friend who has two hives in his backyard. One hive has a carni queen and the other has an italian queen. I rememeber that day because it was chilly.... around 45 degrees and later in the day. The carnis were flying all over the place while the Italianas layed dormit.

So interesting!

[Joel]

I think it is also a good idea because you broaden your gene pool minimizing in breeding. Where do get your Black Tiger Queens and what nationality are they? I've seen the same cool flight data you relate with Carnis and Buckfast. The amount of flight difference is very notable.

[TwT]

>>>"i had heard, since italians are "short range" foragers and carniolians are "long range" foragers"

I have never heard of this, I know some breeds fly in cooler weather, but never heard of the distance thing, were is some onfo on this

[Chef Isaac]

Joel: I got the queen last year from Michael. Its prety good. I need to replace it prety son though as it was from last year. Would you like it when I replace it?

[chemistbert]

I like my NWC's

[BubbaBob]

IF there were no varroa problems, I'd use Carniolians exclusively, but since there are varroa mites, I prefer Russians, which have some mite tolerance. That said, I bought 40 nucs of Carnis this spring and have an order for 500 carni queens for the fall re-queening because Russians are in such short supply.

I'd even go further and say that, in my opinion, Purvis Bros Gold Line Russians are about as good as it gets ... wish he had more of them.

BubbaBob

[Robert Hawkins]

BB, what varroa problem? Haven't you heard? vinegar is here. 100% mite drop. That's dang near all of 'em.

We'll be sprayin' perfectly good mead next.

Hawk

[buford]

the "short range / long range" thing is in one of the bee books i have. i'll try to look for it this afternoon.

concerning vineger treatment, the first i've heard of this was a brief mention of it in a recent ABJ. can someone give a detailed explanation of this treatment?

[buford]

o.k. in answer to the "long range / short range" question...

i found this in "the beekeeper's handbook" (third edition) by: diana sammataro and alphonse avitabile.

chapter 1: "understanding bees" contains an evaluation of italian, carniolian, caucasion, buckfast, starline, and cordovan bees. it lists advantages and disadvantages for each.

under "disadvantages" for the italians, this book reads "short-distance foragers, thus have a tendency to rob weaker hives, creating a robbing frenzy in the apiary". it also reads "slow to build populations in spring; nit good for early honey flows".

for the "advantages" of carniolians, the book reads "little robbing instinct, as they are long-distance foragers and are object oriented" as opposed to italians being color oriented (their point here concerns "drifting").

the thing about mixing races in an apiary is somewhere else (and i'll see if i can't find that also). but, i also understand that book knowledge only goes so far. but, that's where i got this stuff anyway.

[Robert Hawkins]

Sorry Buford, I was just kidding. The tratment of mites w/ vinegar is still experimental and theoretical and nobody can give you a detailed explanation. But I am excited by the early reports.

Hawk

[Lew Best]

Buford

Check out the other forum http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003191; quite a discussion on vinegar.

Lew

[buford]

thanks

[mark williams]

Just as soon as someone finds the PREFECT QUEEN,please let me know. Thank you :D