Supersedure Cells

[mgidewall@hotmail.com]

Just making sure I am reading my hive correctly...

Today on our inspection (week 3) we found nicely capped brood; fat and shiny larvae, and a single egg in each cell. However, there was 1 supersedure cell in one hive and about 4 in the second hive. One of the cells in Hive #2 had been opened and was empty. We saw Queen #1 today, and Queen #2 last week.

They may have had nosema soon after we got them (yellow streaks on the hives) but we are now treating them and they seem to be doing everything right but I don't know why they would already have supersedure cells.

[MountainCamp]

"They may have had nosema soon after we got them (yellow streaks on the hives) but we are now treating them"

It sounds like the streaking is on the outside of the hive. It is most likely nothing, but treating them wouldn't hurt.

"and they seem to be doing everything right but I don't know why they would already have supersedure cells."

There may be something about the queens installed that they don't like. It is not uncommon for package queens to be superceded.

[Michael Bush]

Are there eggs or larvae in the supercedure cells? Bees often build a cup and never even try to raise a queen in it, so if there is no larvae then it probably isn't a supercedure. Also, I've often seen them after a package was installed and then they tore them back down before they were ever capped.

Even if it is, my philosophy is that you should let them. The bees usually know what they are doing.

[Scot Mc Pherson]

Especially for new beekeepers, a picture is worth a 1000 words. Are you sure you have supercedure cells? For new beekeepers sometimes burr comb can be confused for queen cells. Do you have the ability to post a picture or few?

[mgidewall@hotmail.com]

I didn't think to check inside the cells...one had a hole in it and appeared to be empty. As far as "capped", I don't know, it looked like all the pictures I've seen of supercedure cells (peanut shaped, and enclosed fully). We did leave them alone because I've read that on this site, but all the books I have say to remove them. It gets confusing because everyone seems to have a different idea on how to do this...I guess that is the same with a lot of things.

Scot: I agree, pictures are helpful. I tried to talk my partner into opening up the hive today but she (probably correctly) said we should wait since we just looked in yesterday. We took pictures yesterday but on film and so can't send them on the web, sorry. I am pretty sure it wasn't burr comb as we've seen that and these were definite and individual BIG cups on the upper 1/3 of the frame.

One more thing...we seem to squash a lot of bees and bought a bee brush to help but that seems to make them mad! The bees just seem to keep pouring out when we want to close the lid...normal or are we doing something wrong? I hate that sound and feel so bad.


[This message has been edited by mgidewall@hotmail.com (edited April 30, 2004).]

[NHbees]

I didn't think to check inside the cells...one had a hole in it and appeared to be empty.
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It sound like we are on about the same time schedule, I installed my package about the same time, last week they had started a queen cup, this week it was gone, they destroyed it. I often wonder if the older bees figure that there is something wrong with the queen and start one, then she gets released, takes a few days to get up to speed (and spread her scent), then they realize they don't need it.

One more thing...we seem to squash a lot of bees and bought a bee brush to help but that seems to make them mad!
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The only time I have been stung repeatedly was when I used the bee brush, I now leave it in the cellar. Try sliding the feeder from back to front when setting it on, this way you will tend to push the bees out of the way instead of squishing them.

[Michael Bush]

>One more thing...we seem to squash a lot of bees and bought a bee brush to help but that seems to make them mad!

First, I find a bee brush isn't much help when closing up a hive. Just set things down very slowly and you will squish less of them.

Second if you DO use a bee brush, don't just drag the bees slowly, this makes them mad, flick they quickly to knock them off. Slow and gentle is good for most things, but not brushing bees or shaking bees. These actions require very decisive quick movements.

>The bees just seem to keep pouring out when we want to close the lid...normal or are we doing something wrong?

The will keep walking up on the edge of the top normally. I assume that's what you mean. This is sort of gradual, but happening all around before you can get others out of the way. That's normal. What I mean when they are pouring is more like a pot boiling over. That is not normal and you need to figure out what you are doing to make them so mad.

>I hate that sound and feel so bad.

The crunch of a bee? Me too.

[Michael Bush]

"If a job is worth doing it's worth doing slowly" Gypsy Rose Lee